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There are difficult scriptures for Damnationists as well.
Since Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the world (all people), did he succeed, or is he an eternal failure?
so they can live how they want now, and sin as much as they want.
Unfortunately "many" in NT Greek often means "all." In Rom 5:19, surely Paul means to say that all were made sinners, particularly when you look at 5:18. So you need to understand the context, and how you do often depends upon what you start out believing. The John quotations obviously do not mean all. Matthew, however, parallels texts in Paul where many clearly means all. I suspect it doesn't for Matthew, because I don't think Matthew is a universalist. With Paul, however, we need fancy exegetical footwork to avoid universalism.
The Talmud is, in fact, a historical record. There may be some mythological entries in the Talmud but it is largely an interpretation of the Hebrew scriptures. But you seem to have forgotten that I also quoted the Jewish Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia Judaica and I asked to you review the bibliography at the end of each article
Anything you say about historical Jewish faith and practice is pretty much meaningless unless you can quote some Jewish history but I seem to be the only one doing that.
Because the way Jesus taught really is better. It’s not bitter medicine we take because otherwise God will torture us forever. At least not when it’s Jesus actual way.If you believed everyone was going to eventually be saved, would you then sin as much as you wanted, or would you resist temptation?
Is the only reason you resist temptation now because of a fear over hellfire? Not because of gratitude for the cross, love of your fellow man, love of God.
Because the way Jesus taught really is better. It’s not bitter medicine we take because otherwise God will torture us forever.
Hmm... not the norm?
Let's read it again. Six theological schools...
Four were Universalist, one was Annihilationist, and one was Damnationist.
I don't think we can consider six schools in one certain part of an empire that stretched from Britain to Persia to be proof of any norm. If anything, your citation from Schaff shows us that there was a diversity of views on this subject. Important, yes, but I already agreed with that."In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist,
I think it is slanderous to accuse God of creating humanity with the sole intent of torturing the vast majority for all eternity with no hope of escape. I'm amazed that most Christians have no problem with that whatsoever. Typically just shrug it off.Universalists can't get by all those verses because Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 are clear that God has chosen believers out of the stream of humanity. The only question in my mind is why? There's no answer in Scripture because no one's worthy of God's rescue.
Are you familiar with the Harrowing of Hell?The chance for mercy by repenting of sins and believing in Jesus is only during this mortal life.
That’s the way it is.
Universalism has no issues with those scriptures. Hopefully you will learn something about Universalism by talking to us Christian brothers. (and sisters)You don’t get to quote just the verses you like, and ignore Jesus’ clear words.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not IS CONDEMNED already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Where have I heard that before? You are twisting the scripture to make it fit your beliefs.Jesus is available as savior for all, but His atonement of sins is only applied to those who believe and repent.
There’s no contradiction there.
Jesus also said few will be saved, most will be damned.
I don't think we can consider six schools in one certain part of an empire that stretched from Britain to Persia to be proof of any norm. If anything, your citation from Schaff shows us that there was a diversity of views on this subject. Important, yes, but I already agreed with that.
This points to the centers, from which everything flowed.I don't think we can consider six schools in one certain part of an empire that stretched from Britain to Persia to be proof of any norm. If anything, your citation from Schaff shows us that there was a diversity of views on this subject. Important, yes, but I already agreed with that.
The assumption is something like the schools of thought would most likely inform the opinions of the masses. The preponderance of schools teaching Universalism would be an indicator that the majority of people were being taught Universalism.
And these schools don't represent a "preponderance" of anything.
Well, I don't think that it does amount to that.Preponderance with regards to the information we have.
But that isn't what you showed us in any case. Your information showed a diversity of opinion in the early Christian world. And it's not as though these theological schools at that time are analogous to today's seminaries or universities anyway.So if I gave you a room of 30 people, 25 of them saying the world is round, and the remaining 5 saying it’s flat, the preponderance of opinion is that the world is round.
If you think the Talmud is mythology show me 2-3 examples I won't hold my breath. The Jewish Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia Judaica are certainly not "mythology." I find it laughable that you dismiss everything I posted as mythology and you quote some of the writings of an atheist Bart Ehrman.And just what are my assumptions/presuppositions? I doubt that you read anything that I said prior to my rejection of your mythology book.
If you think the Talmud is mythology show me 2-3 examples I won't hold my breath. The Jewish Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia Judaica are certainly not "mythology." I find it laughable that you dismiss everything I posted as mythology and you quote some of the writings of an atheist Bart Ehrman.
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