Universal Truth's...?

Colter · Dec 22, 2016

dqhall said:
If God is not within a person, perhaps one would need to change his/her thoughts and actions to accommodate God. People might also learn about God from books or the conversations of others. I do not need to go somewhere else to find God, I might pray inside a small room, in a forest green or upon the deep blue sea to try to find God.

Matthew 6:5 (WEB) "When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most certainly, I tell you, they have received their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, enter into your inner room, and having shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

Luke 17:21 (WEB) "neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you."

Yes, God the Father is within, he has sent a piece of himself into the hearts of ALL people. The Thought Adjuster waits patiently for the glorious day when his child seeks his guidance.

Endtime Survivors · Dec 22, 2016

St_Worm2 said:
Hi ES, perhaps not:

I believe the NASB's choice to translate ἐντός [entos] as "in your midst" makes for a far more proper/sensible and contextual understanding of this passage in Luke, don't you (though the kingdom of God can, of course, be found within the hearts of all who have become true believers).

20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” ~Luke 17

Hey St_Worm2 (btw, is it okay if I just call you worm? The St. + underscore just seems so formal...)

I think there is room for both interpretations (i.e. inside and in your midst) to be accurate depending on the circumstance. In the case of Luke 17:20-21 the context appears to be that of people who want to be able to point to some physical identifier (like the temple) as proof of the KoH, which, in this particular case, seemed to overlook that the KoH isn't based on physical rituals or observances, bur rather is based on an invisible spiritual relationship with God. In this context it makes more sense for the translation to be "inside you".

But, if the context were something like "showing the kingdom of Heaven through practical behavior", like neighbor loving or whatever, then I think the "in your midst" option would be appropriate (like when Jesus sent the disciples out with the instruction that anyone who rejected them was to be told, "the kingdom of Heaven has come near to you".

Endtime Survivors · Dec 23, 2016

Colter said:
Thought Adjuster

Haha, interesting euphemism for "teacher". Wish I would have known that in high school.

OzSpen · Dec 23, 2016

John Hyperspace said:
Love never fails.

By "love" I mean that spirit which works no ill will toward others. Romans 13:10. But in all sincerity I would propose that if we need to ask "what is 'love'?" then our heart must not know it, which begs the question 1 John 4:8

Your accusation is false.

Assertions require evidence, otherwise they are personal opinions with no clout.

OzSpen · Dec 23, 2016

ValleyGal said:
There is only one love. According to 1 John, God is love. To understand love, you have to understand his nature - it is good, and seeks the good for others. How love looks is different when you apply it to different situations. Love is always right....the "love" of a prostitute is not love; it is fulfilling lust of the flesh. The suicide bomber is not loving those he kills; love is life-giving.

Love is always right. Flesh that out.... you seem intelligent. What does it mean to you?

Now compare that love with the love of 1 Corinthians 13.

ValleyGal · Dec 24, 2016

The love in 1 Cor 13 is only part of the picture.

Endtime Survivors · Dec 24, 2016

OzSpen said:
Now compare that love with the love of 1 Corinthians 13.

I'm not sure what the disagreement is, here. Would you mind clarifying your comments about comparison?

Neogaia777 · Dec 24, 2016

St_Worm2 said:
The HS indwells believers dq, but our peace is still found in Him, not within ourselves. We look outside of "ourselves" to Him to find peace (a truth which is perhaps most obvious when thought of in regard to those who have not yet become Christians).

As far as Luke 17:21 goes, the Lord was addressing the Pharisees. Do you really believe that He was telling them to look within themselves to find the "kingdom of God"? There is simply no comparing the true "meaning" of Buddha's quote (to look within ourselves to find peace) with the truth the Lord taught us in Luke 17:21.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

--David

What about Christ in you, like Paul and others...?

Neogaia777 · Dec 24, 2016

Hell only makes sense to me if some kind of form or type of re-incarnation or recycling of souls or people is possible and a reality...

This reality, a lot of it is torment, and I think this realm of reality is hell, I think it is the outer darkness outside the gates or kingdom walls of heaven where people, and some people suffer, or are miserable or tormented for eternity. Some people never change their ways and I think these ones are predestined and created to be unchanging and to always be miserable and make everyone else miserable, to be tormented and torment others, forever...

Some do change though and grow and achieve in God's eyes and overcome and develop and make it into heaven at some point. I think he predestined these ones as well, and the purpose of the ones who never change in his eyes, they were only created for, and their kinds of reality, this reality, only exists for the purpose of growing, developing and refining the rest of us that do and are predestined to make it into heaven...

We who make it often start out less than or under and perhaps, in some cases, even "worse" than the others who are not meant to, for the purpose of growing, developing and refining us, anyways we may start out less than or under, or maybe even "worse" than them, but, by them and at their hands we get refined and developed into growing into being more and greater than, and, in the next world, over them, and, in God's eyes, better than them, even if we may have started out worse.

Is that cruel of God to create creatures some that are predestined who do not ever make it, for the purpose of molding and shaping and predestining others that do make it, "because" of the ones who do not ever make it?

The only thing I can say is "hey, he's God, who are we to question what he can or cannot or should or shouldn't do?" Shall the potter say to the clay, "Why did you make me this way?" or, "Is not right for God to do what he wishes with his own things?" "Is it not right for God to make a vessel, one for an unfit use, another for a fitting use?"

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Dec 24, 2016

Astral Projection/Spirit travel is something almost all of us do, but may not realize it...

The movie: "The Never Ending Story"... The boy goes into the bookstore and he's asked by the Old Man, If He had read, can't remember the Book, the one with a Captain Nemo in it... Anyways, he asks the boy, "Have you ever "been" Captain Nemo, under the Sea...?" The boy says, "Yes, I have." (excitedly)...

The boy was "Astral Projecting" or practicing "Spirit Travel"... Many of us do this with books, movies, T.V., even peoples conversations, identifying and relating to the individuals in it in a very personal, deeply connected way...

When a child plays with a action figure, or watches a T.V. show and goes around saying and playing with his toy and imagining and racing around making noises saying "I'm batman!, Or, "I'm a power ranger" Or I'm a ninja turtle", or whatever, he's astral projecting...

Most of us do this with the "Good people" and not the bad ones, until those lines get blurred, that is, then it can get scary, if your still doing it and cannot control it...

You start thinking your like the bad ones, or go back and forth with any and all of them, male female, good bad, young old, which can be very confusing and scary... What your really doing is trying to find yourself when it gets to this point and your still doing it cause you lost yourself and it gets very scary and very confusing...

Couple with the fact of the "special book", a book that is quite literally alive and comes to life when your doing this with it... In the example, the Never Ending Story Book, which is just like the living book, The Bible, especially when your projecting or traveling in the Spirit...

Well, that's that...

God Bless!

St_Worm2 · Dec 24, 2016

Neogaia777 said:
What about Christ in you, like Paul and others...?

Hi Neogaia, whether the Lord is standing on one of the moons of Saturn, sitting across from us at a table in Starbucks, or indwelling us, we look outside of ourselves to Him for our peace (we don't seek it within ourselves).

But the Buddha says, “Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.”

The Dalai Lama (at an ecumenical world summit a little over a decade ago) admitted that for specific reasons such as this (along with many, many others, of course), the core teachings of Buddhism and Christianity cannot be harmonized.

Even something as simple as the way we "meditate" is diametrically opposed to that of the East (we fill our minds with the word of God and focus on Him when we meditate, they empty theirs).

As I said earlier in this thread, there are points that Christianity does seem to touch on the teachings of Buddhism (and vice versa), but these (seeming) similarities are quickly lost when the true/deeper meanings of each are uncovered, compared, and properly understood.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

--David

"Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not
as the world gives, do I give to you. Let not your
heart be troubled, nor let it be afraid"
John 14:27

OzSpen · Dec 25, 2016

Endtime Survivors said:
I'm not sure what the disagreement is, here. Would you mind clarifying your comments about comparison?

I was replying to ValleyGal who stated, 'There is only one love' and referred to God is love.

The fact is that the Greek language uses four words for love:

agape - God's unconditional love that is voluntary and rational when exercised by human beings;
philia - close friendship, emotional, or brotherly love;
eros - erotic love;
storge - parental love.

Only 2 of these are used in the NT - agape and philia.

Oz

Endtime Survivors · Dec 26, 2016

OzSpen said:
I was replying to ValleyGal who stated, 'There is only one love' and referred to God is love.

The fact is that the Greek language uses four words for love:

agape - God's unconditional love that is voluntary and rational when exercised by human beings;

philia - close friendship, emotional, or brotherly love;

eros - erotic love;

storge - parental love.

Only 2 of these are used in the NT - agape and philia.

Isn't there room for both of you to be right, here? God is the only source of love. That love can be expressed in a variety of ways (as you've suggested).

However, I'd just like to add that your description of unconditional love comes across as a contradiction. Unconditional love can't be described as voluntary or rational, because those equate to conditions.

OzSpen · Dec 28, 2016

Endtime Survivors said:
However, I'd just like to add that your description of unconditional love comes across as a contradiction. Unconditional love can't be described as voluntary or rational, because those equate to conditions.

Love in action needs to be described. It was not contradictory but a description of how it happens. If I have an agape love of my wife, it is voluntary (I am not forced to love in this way) and reasonable/rational (It is more than reasonable to love her in this way). There's nothing contradictory there.

If you gained the meaning of agape from Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon (1957:5-6), you would find that it means:

Of human love - without indication of the person, who is the object of love;
Of the love of God and Christ to men (human beings); of the relation between God and Christ;
A love-feast, a common meal eaten by early Christians in connection with their church services, for the purpose of fostering and expressing brotherly love.

Thayer's Greek lexicon gives the meaning as 'affection, good-will, love, benevolence (Jn 15:13; Rom 13;10; 1 Jn 14:18). Of the love of men to men; especially of that love of Christians towards Christians which is enjoined and prompted by their religion, whether the love be viewed as in the soul or as expressed.... Of the love of men towards God' (Thayer 1889/1962:4-5).

Oz

Endtime Survivors · Dec 28, 2016

OzSpen said:
Love in action needs to be described. It was not contradictory but a description of how it happens. If I have an agape love of my wife, it is voluntary (I am not forced to love in this way) and reasonable/rational (It is more than reasonable to love her in this way). There's nothing contradictory there.

If you gained the meaning of agape from Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon (1957:5-6), you would find that it means:

Of human love - without indication of the person, who is the object of love;

Of the love of God and Christ to men (human beings); of the relation between God and Christ;

A love-feast, a common meal eaten by early Christians in connection with their church services, for the purpose of fostering and expressing brotherly love.

Thayer's Greek lexicon gives the meaning as 'affection, good-will, love, benevolence (Jn 15:13; Rom 13;10; 1 Jn 14:18). Of the love of men to men; especially of that love of Christians towards Christians which is enjoined and prompted by their religion, whether the love be viewed as in the soul or as expressed.... Of the love of men towards God' (Thayer 1889/1962:4-5).

Oz

Hi Oz. Thanks for elaborating on your understanding of agape love. You know, I used to think agape love was the kind of love that leaves your mouth hanging open in stupefied wonder. I still like to think of it that way even though I've since learned the variety of meanings behind the word.

Anyway, I don't see anything about unconditional in any of those definitions you offered, which makes sense. Love, without any kind of condition to define what it is doesn't make sense.

In any attempt you make to define unconditional love, I guarantee you will use conditional statements. For example, your illustration of voluntarily loving your wife. The two conditions are that first, she is your wife, and second the love is voluntary.

In the third definition regarding the "love-feast" there are a few conditions. The meal is common. It is connected to their church service. It is meant to foster brotherly love. It would not achieve the same goal if the meal was eaten separately by individuals in their private homes. If the condition of "common" is not met, then the brotherly love won't be there.

OzSpen · Dec 30, 2016

Endtime Survivors said:
Anyway, I don't see anything about unconditional in any of those definitions you offered, which makes sense. Love, without any kind of condition to define what it is doesn't make sense.

I provided these definitions:

If you gained the meaning of agape from Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon (1957:5-6), you would find that it means:

Of human love - without indication of the person, who is the object of love;
Of the love of God and Christ to men (human beings); of the relation between God and Christ;

To love someone without indication of the qualities or liabilities of a person is unconditional. That's what Arndt & Gingrich meant with the lexicon definition, 'without indication of the person, who is the object of love'.

The love of God and Christ to people is unconditional. They love you, me, Hitler, Osama bin Laden or any other brute with this kind of agape: 'For God so loved the world that he gave....' (Jn 3:16).

If you want God to love you and me with conditional love, we would be damned because of our sin. I thank God that his love for me did not consider the nature of my heart. 'But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us' (Rom 5:8).

There is no way in the world that you will convince me that God's agape love for human beings or between God and Christ is conditional.

Oz

Endtime Survivors · Dec 30, 2016

OzSpen said:
To love someone without indication of the qualities or liabilities of a person is unconditional.

Nope, because "without" is a condition. Try again?

joshua 1 9 · Dec 30, 2016

Neogaia777 said:
I'd like to start this thread to try and compile some "universal truth's"...

I'll give an example of one, combining some of man's wisdom with God's wisdom to discover what could be a universal, innate in us, universal concept, or truth...

"Karma" (man's wisdom) "You reap what you sow" (God's wisdom) "What goes around, comes around" (man's wisdom) "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", "for this is law (universal truth) and the prophet's (point?)" (God's wisdom, golden rule or universal truth or law) Treat other's how you want (or expect) to be treated" (man's wisdom, golden rule or universal truth) Eye for an eye (God's wisdom, OT, Old covenant, not NT, or New Covenant)...

So, I would say "Karma" could be kinda like a universal, innate in us, truth about our world and us in it...

Can you think of others?

Concept's like "reincarnation" or soul or spirit recycling of sorts... Or, "ancestor spirits", how we are tied and connected to our lineage or bloodlines, in a spiritual concept of a sense of some sort...? Astral projection/spirit travel...?

Got any more or wish to expound some on these?

God Bless!

For the engineer there is Murphy's law. The Poet says that the "child is father of the man" meaning we are the product of our childhood. Or you can not teach an old dog new tricks. If you want to reduce everything to a proverb you can look at what Solomon has to say about it.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 30, 2016

Tetra said:
That might be a good way to look at it. Sometimes we think there's a contradiction when there isn't...
Consider:

If scripture is infallible, it cannot contradict itself

There "seems" to be a contradiction

Therefore, if 1 is true, and 2 is true, we must simply be misunderstanding scripture.

The gravitational constant is G = 6.67408 × 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2

It's kinda cool, because no matter what, it always stays the same! The constant never changes. So while gravity feels different on the moon then the earth, that's only due to the mass of the object. All over the universe, the constant for G is always the same, only mass differs.

Most contradictions can be explained. The issue is dealing with paradoxes.

OzSpen · Jan 1, 2017

Endtime Survivors said:
Nope, because "without" is a condition. Try again?

I'm not into playing games. Bye!

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