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Brewserx

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I guess I would call myself a christian. Do I make it every sunday? No, I dont. I actually find myself going less and I know why. Lately I have really been into evolution and other theories that, for some, bring into question some of our beliefs. To me it appears that evolution is on the verge of becoming fact, some scientists already consider it so. I guess what I am asking is, have I heard all the information? Truthfully I have never felt more distant from christianity in my life.
 
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shinbits

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there's no valid reason to argue against evolution.

and belief in evolution doesn't have to stop u from being a Christian.

besides, it seems like your issues with Christianity extend much further than with evolution. try one of the other forums here for more support.
 
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Brewserx

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I very much agree with you on that. When you look at the size of the universe, the vast amount of time that passed before humans "evolved" and how odd the quantum world behaves, it brings up many questions. What was the christian god doing for those billions of years, why the wait, why so much space for just us humans. And Im sure you have all heard this but if evolution is true what did god evolve from?
 
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Doveaman

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Do you have information on Jesus? As a Christian, do you have a personal relationship with Christ? Because that's what Christianity is, you know. If you have such a relationship it doesn't matter if evolution is fact or fiction.

Usually when a person's faith is troubled by evolution it is because their faith is in the wrong things. If your faith is in Jesus, then being right or wrong about evolution is neither here nor there. Remember, Christ lived before Darwin, and many faithful Christians lived and died before Darwin was born and died.

Christianity has nothing to do with weather or not evolution is correct, it has to do with whether or not Jesus is correct, and if you believe Jesus is correct then put your faith in Him and keep it there.
 
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Brewserx

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Perhaps thats my problem, the more I learn the less I believe in Jesus. When I am reading on evolution for example there is documented proof. There is fossil, genetics and strong ideas. When I think or read about Jesus, I see no proof. Why dont christians hold themselves to the same burden of proof as scientists. They still called evolution a theory for lack of complete information, shouldnt christianity be scrutinized as much?
 
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Doveaman

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If Jesus condemns it then condemn it. If Jesus is silent on it then we are free to explore it responsibly.

I think the problem many Bible believers have with evolution theory is the evolutionists inability to reconcile evolution theory with the many scriptures in the Bible that appear to contradict it. If evolutionists are able to show how the two can be reconciled then I'm sure many more Bible believers would be open to it.
 
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Brewserx

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Dont take my questions as an attack, that is not my intention. One of the questions that has bothered me lately is who gave Jesus all this authority. The bible says he is the son of god and our savior but it gets harder and harder to take the bibles contents as truth. Jesus was supposed to have unearthly knowledge but no where in the bible is anything written about knowledge besides what was know at the time. Isnt it fair to question his divinity as much so it is for creationist to question evolution for example
 
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AV1611VET

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Hang on, Brewserx, Help is on the way!

I don't believe it is our job to disprove evolution.

I believe evolution will [very soon] be disproven by the Lord Jesus Christ when He comes back.

Unfortunately, it's going to get worse before it gets better, as -- just prior to our Lord's return -- He is going to be preceded by someone who is going to make evolution look like a piece of cake.

So easy a child could understand it.

And he will be very convincing too.

Don't worry though -- evolution won't stand a chance when the Cavalry from Calvary arrives --
 
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Doveaman

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The proof of Christianity is faith: "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." - Heb 11:1.

Faith is a gift from God. We either have it or we don't. What scientific discoveries do for our faith is to help confirm it and strengthen it. But even without the discoveries we still have the faith. This is why many Christians lived and died faithfully long before many of those scientific discoveries. They weren't troubled by the things that now trouble you.
 
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Brewserx

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Faith come with all religion. If you dont have faith you go to a firey hell. Without faith our religion falls apart. Without it the unanswered questions become to much. I just cant believe that our all powerfull god, who created what we know and what we dont would expect us to follow blindly. A god with the extreme scientific knowledge he must have would want us to question everything and eventually uncover his secrets. He would not want us to always remain in a state of ignorance called faith. The bible is where faith is defined and explained. This brings me to my same issue, why should I believe what is written in the bible?
 
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AV1611VET

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Paul deals with this issue in the book of Colossians, where he takes on the scientific aspects of life and tells us that we will never achieve full-knowledge (epignosis) on any given subject apart from Jesus Christ.
 
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Brewserx

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I understand that but that wasnt my question. Where does the bible get the authority to be the word of god? Im not concerned about what individual men wrote. I can throw together a book and claim it to be inspired-directed by god. My book would most definately suck as I am a poor author but no one could 100% prove me to be wrong. Much in the same way the mormons threw together a third installment and millions believe in its divinity. I am simple asking under what burden of proof must these books, all of them, be scrutinized.
 
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Doveaman

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Brewserx said:
Dont take my questions as an attack, that is not my intention. One of the questions that has bothered me lately is who gave Jesus all this authority.
Click to expand...
God: "Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under His power, and that He had come from God and was returning to God." - John 13:3.
The bible says he is the son of god and our savior but it gets harder and harder to take the bibles contents as truth.
Click to expand...
Well, that's not Jesus' fault. There are many Christian scientists who don't have that problem.
Jesus was supposed to have unearthly knowledge but no where in the bible is anything written about knowledge besides what was know at the time.
Click to expand...
That's because Jesus had more important things to be concerned about rather than scientific knowledge. There are more important things in life than scientific knowledge. Jesus' knowledge was about God and His relationship to man, not about scientific knowledge:

Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. - 1 Cor 8:1.
Isnt it fair to question his divinity as much so it is for creationist to question evolution for example
Click to expand...
Yes, but you are not going to find answers in matters of faith the same way you find scientific answers.
 
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AV1611VET

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Brewserx said:
I am simple asking under what burden of proof must these books, all of them, be scrutinized.
Click to expand...
Combat -- for one.

Despite history's attempt to eradicate the Bible, the more It was burned and Its readers persecuted, the quicker It spread; despite Mother Nature's attempt to relegate the Bible to dust, It was perfectly copied so It wouldn't fade into obscurity.

Many people, nations and tongues have vowed to destroy It, but It still remains intact today.

The Book of Mormon, the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita and the Koran all pale into obscurity next to the Bible.
 
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Brewserx

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That if very true, christians were persecuted during its years classified as a cult. But after Constantines conversion the tables turned. It was their turn to opress. But the Jews have been around longer and suffered more then all religions combined. The old testament is half of the bible. Two books, same god, one has a divine son. But the god of abraham must have switched sides. For the jews he guided in the old testament are now abandoned and forgotten in favor of the christians of the new testament. Its all a little confusing to me.
 
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driewerf

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It depends on what denomination or what tendency of christianity you adhere to.
Look.
Since the end of the eightteenth century scientists have discovered more and more features that contradicts a literal reading of the bible.
The Earth is billions years old, the Universe is still much older. We see indeed new species evolving. We find in our bodies remnants of older evolution (like ERV's). We know people spoke different languages before the Tower of Babel. And we see many more things.
Soon came the reaction of some deout christians to stick to a literal reading of the bible. The more science discovered, the more they digged themselves into a dead end street of biblical literalism. Once they claimed that the bible is the inerrant word of god, true cover to cover, the slightest doubt could bring down the whole contruction.
That is why creationists themselves claim that "If Genesis is not true than the bible isn't true and than everything is allowed, like murder or rape". Nonsens of course, but that makes their followers anxious enough not to ask questions.
This has brought leaders of the creationist mouvement to utter lie after lie, just to keep their interpretation of the bible "floating". Ken Ham, Kent Hovind, Ben Stein and others repeat lie after lie.
Although Kent Hovind claims (claimed) to love science, he is in contradiction with the major positions of biology, chemistry geology, geophysics, astronomy, cosmology, paleontology, archeology, linguistics, glaciology, etc etc.

These people are not the mainstream christianity. They are at the fringe of it. They are a very vocal and visisble minority, but they are yet a minority. Now, viewed from Europe, I have the impression, (although I might be wrong here) that they have American cristianity in hostage, and dragged it into a holier-than-thou competition.
Be clear about what causes yoy to doubt. Ask questions, I'm sure here on this forum many people will be glad to answer them. And you will have answers from many different views, theistic evolutionists, biblical literalisrts and atheists like me.
 
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