Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
the fathers are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who are angry with the disobedience of their children (the Jews) because the nation has turned away from God. John has preached repentance to the people and if they repent the hearts of their fathers will be turned back to them.How did Elijah and John the Baptist turn the hearts of the fathers to the children? Why was this a necessity to prepare the Jews to accept Jesus?
That's an interesting take. On what scripture do you rely for it?the fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who are angry with the disobedience of their children (the Jews) because the nation has turned away from God. John has preached repentance to the people and if they repent the hearts of their fathers will be turned back to them.
Malacai 4:5 ¶Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
My answer to your question ofThat's an interesting take. On what scripture do you rely for it?
If we go back to Malachi the original prophecy that foretold of John the Baptist God says if the hearts of the fathers and children are not turned towards each other God would smite the earth with a curse.
This text seems to indicate to me that it is speaking of literal fathers and their children. Why would God smite the entire earth with a curse for the sins of Israel? God is not a severe judge. He is merciful and kind.
As far as God is concerned Israel is His only nation, you could say in a way it is the whole world to Him at that point in time. I believe that my exegesis on the verse in question is commonly accepted by scholars, feel free to check the major Bible commentaries. I do not know what Ellen White had to say about it, perhaps you could share that with me.This text seems to indicate to me that it is speaking of literal fathers and their children. Why would God smite the entire earth with a curse for the sins of Israel? God is not a severe judge. He is merciful and kind.
My answer to your question of
As far as God is concerned Israel is His only nation, you could say in a way it is the whole world to Him at that point in time. I believe that my exegesis on the verse in question is commonly accepted by scholars, feel free to check the major Bible commentaries. I do not know what Ellen White had to say about it, perhaps you could share that with me.
Matthew 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 ¶Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Matthew 21:33 ¶Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
It's not a viable option to me to take my beliefs from other people's beliefs. I base everything I believe upon the Bible so if you have no scripture for the foundation of your belief I can't accept it. I need a thus sayeth the Lord.
That Israel is no longer God's chosen nation was made very clear by Jesus.
This was the culmination of the blessings and cursings found in Deuteronomy. The Jews had finally rebelled against God one too many times.
Am I to understand that you do not accept the writings of Ellen White?It's not a viable option to me to take my beliefs from other people's beliefs. I base everything I believe upon the Bible so if you have no scripture for the foundation of your belief I can't accept it. I need a thus sayeth the Lord.
There are several reasons why I cannot endorse such a view.That Israel is no longer God's chosen nation was made very clear by Jesus.
Am I to understand that you do not accept the writings of Ellen White?
There are several reasons why I cannot endorse such a view.
- A careful reading of both testaments shows that God's grace will surpass the disobedience of Israel such that He will turn the nation back to himself. Hence the many restoration passages which teach just this—that Israel's rejection is neither total nor continuing (e.g., Deut. 30:1-6; Eze. 31:31-37; 36:16-37:14; Amos 9:11-15; Mat 23:39; Luke 21:24; Rom. 11:11,25-32).
- The Apostle Paul indicates that unbelieving Israel retains it's elect status as a nation before God (Rom. 9:3-5; 11:28-29). Notice especially Romans 11:28-29:
'Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.'
Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells us that unbelieving Jews—those who were his most serious opposition, who are enemies concerning the gospel are nevertheless still 'elect' (chosen by God) and are to be beloved by Scripturally-informed Christians for the sake of the fathers, the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob which form the root of the olive tree and by which Gentile wild olive branches find our salvation. How can this be? Paul explains that the gifts and calling (of Israel) by God are irrevocable. Even in unbelief, Israel as a nation remains elect—chosen and called by God for His purposes in history. Notice too that this national election differs from individual election (Rom. 11:7) which is the sole means by which any person, regardless of ethnicity is saved.
Is Today’s Israel Still Chosen by God?
Am I to understand that you do not accept the writings of Ellen White?
There are several reasons why I cannot endorse such a view.
- A careful reading of both testaments shows that God's grace will surpass the disobedience of Israel such that He will turn the nation back to himself. Hence the many restoration passages which teach just this—that Israel's rejection is neither total nor continuing (e.g., Deut. 30:1-6; Eze. 31:31-37; 36:16-37:14; Amos 9:11-15; Mat 23:39; Luke 21:24; Rom. 11:11,25-32).
- The Apostle Paul indicates that unbelieving Israel retains it's elect status as a nation before God (Rom. 9:3-5; 11:28-29). Notice especially Romans 11:28-29:
'Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.'
Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells us that unbelieving Jews—those who were his most serious opposition, who are enemies concerning the gospel are nevertheless still 'elect' (chosen by God) and are to be beloved by Scripturally-informed Christians for the sake of the fathers, the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob which form the root of the olive tree and by which Gentile wild olive branches find our salvation. How can this be? Paul explains that the gifts and calling (of Israel) by God are irrevocable. Even in unbelief, Israel as a nation remains elect—chosen and called by God for His purposes in history. Notice too that this national election differs from individual election (Rom. 11:7) which is the sole means by which any person, regardless of ethnicity is saved.
Is Today’s Israel Still Chosen by God?
Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine’s flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.
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