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True name of the Messiah.

TillICollapse

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Much like French, the Koine Greek language tends to drop the "s" sound at the end of words. In the case of Iesous, this would not have been the case as "sous" refers to Zeus, which requires the "s" be pronounced.
NM. I think I see your train of thought.

You are saying that Yeshua is in fact translated differently in Koine Greek than Ἰησοῦς, simply because of the way the language was used at that time (perhaps it's Ιεσουα or some such, without a specific reference other than to the way the language was spoken) ... and that the LXX writers, early church fathers, etc ... instances where we may find Ἰησοῦς in reference to Yeshua are either purposeful bastardizations (for Roman purposes, Zeus, etc) or passed on by ignorant tradition (the name Iesous was common, others merely copied what they saw), etc. which carries us down to our present day, after further changes (to Jesus) where believers are less likely to let the name go for a myriad of reasons. Is this the gist ?
 
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Strathos

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I'd have to know more about the theology of the Romans during that time frame. I would think Zeus being the chief god of the pantheon was believed to provide many benefits if one worshiped him.

The Roman name for Zeus was Jupiter or Jove. Not even "Zeus"...
 
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Radagast

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The ending "sous" is the same set of phonemes as in the name Zeus

No, it isn't. Both the vowel sound and the initial consonant differ.

the common Greek name Iēsous for Romans of the time literally means "Zeus heals"

Pure fiction. There was no such "common Greek name for Romans of the time," nor does Iēsous mean "Zeus heals."

You are incorrect. The Greek spelling of Joshua (originally Yahoshu'a in Hebrew) is Ἰησοῦs

Ἰησοῦs is the same as Iēsous. The latter is simply transliterated into English letters.

And that's because the New Testament was written by Paul and Greeks. The actual Jewish gospels were purposefully destroyed and kept out of the cannon.

There were no "Jewish gospels." There may have been a Logion written by Matthew in Aramaic, which has been incorporated in our Matthew and Luke. But the gospels were written in Greek because not only non-Jews, but also most Jews, spoke Greek.

Much like French, the Koine Greek language tends to drop the "s" sound at the end of words.

Really? And you know this how?

But I think it's time to live all this silliness behind.
 
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Called out

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Yehowah is the true name of our Creator, Yahweh is a name of a Samaritan god. As for the Greek spelling of Yehowshuwa, the correct spelling would be ιωσυα,Yeh-ow-s(H)-u-a.
So as you can see ιησουϛ is not the correct transliteration for Yehowshuwa.
 
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Radagast

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Yehowah is the true name of our Creator, Yahweh is a name of a Samaritan god.

Nonsense. Nobody knows for certain what the vowel sounds for YHWH should be, because the Jews didn't speak the name, but "Yahweh" is the most likely.

Medieval Jews wrote the vowel signs for "Adonai" under the YHWH, as a marker for the fact that they should say "Adonai" when reading it. The resulting combination of consonants and vowels would be pronounced as Yehowah/Jehovah, but this is in fact a misunderstanding of what יְהֹוָה means.

As for the Greek spelling of Yehowshuwa, the correct spelling would be ιωσυα,Yeh-ow-s(H)-u-a.

Perhaps you could go back in time 2200 years and tell the Jews who translated the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek that they got it wrong.

They used Ἰησοῦs (Iēsous) for Joshua.
 
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Called out

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Everything you say is not backed up by facts. Most Jewish people will not accept Yahweh as the Creator's name. they will accept either Yehowah or Yehovah. Yahweh is incorrect, and was introduced by the Sacred Name Movement and the Jesuits.
As for the Jews not mentioning his name, that tradition comes from the Talmud not the Torah. The Greek Septuagint in the old testament translated Yehowshuwa as Iesoun. It is not a transliteration or a translation of the Name Yehowshuwa. it is a made up name, carried over into Latin then English. Even in the King James has it is translated as Jehoshua, then shortened to Joshua. See Numbers 13:16 and 1 chronicles 7:27 Then in the New Testament they translated it incorrectly as Jesus. Totally misleading everyone into believing in a false name.
 
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dayhiker

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Well, an interesting read .. but since God looks on the heart, not the specific words I say, I see no reason that my relationship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit rests on the historical passing of words thru time and languages!
 
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BL2KTN

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Radagast said:
No, it isn't. Both the vowel sound and the initial consonant differ.

"eu" and "ou" are the same phoneme. The "z" sound and the "s" sound are the same phoneme with a change only in vocalization, and an s in the middle of a word between two vowels is often pronounced as a z in many languages, Koine Greek included (i.e. business, rosey, etc).

Pure fiction. There was no such "common Greek name for Romans of the time," nor does Iēsous mean "Zeus heals."

Curmudgeon much?

Iesous is a Greek name, and this was agreed upon by early Christian leaders such as Clement of Alexandria (Paedag., III, xii; P.G., VIII, 677) and Cyril. Additionally, Josephus refers to may historical persons named Iesous (you can search for them in the Index).

As for the translation, Iesous is the Ionian genitive of Iaso, Iaso referring to "regeneration" often used for healing. The ending base "sous" is the phoneme in Koine Greek referring to Zeus or generically god, thus causing the word to literally mean in Koine Greek "Zeus/god heals/regenerates". Our names still have these hidden meanings (i.e. Daisy means "like days").

Ἰησοῦs is the same as Iēsous. The latter is simply transliterated into English letters.

Your point?

There were no "Jewish gospels." There may have been a Logion written by Matthew in Aramaic, which has been incorporated in our Matthew and Luke. But the gospels were written in Greek because not only non-Jews, but also most Jews, spoke Greek.

Jewish Gospels

Really? And you know this how?

Koine Greek grammar dictates the sigma be dropped in so many cases that historical linguists have concluded it was a silent letter (and indeed, all other word-ending letters are either vowels or breathing consonants such as r, l, etc (can't remember their actual name... been a while since I took Koine Greek classes).
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Not true.
Josephus said it was written on the turban the high priest wore as four "vowels", which is "YHWH", not pronounced, but breathed.
Breathe in -and out. Listen to it.
From your first breath to your last, you say the manufacturer's name with every intake and outlet of breath, which He lent you and stamped His name upon.
 
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Radagast

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"eu" and "ou" are the same phoneme.

No. In ancient Greek they are quite different.

The "z" sound and the "s" sound are the same phoneme

No. In ancient Greek they are quite different.

Iesous is the Ionian genitive of Iaso

Ἰασώ (Ias&#333 is a feminine name. It would take a feminine genitive. And even if the genitives of Ἰασώ and Ἰησοῦs were the same, so what? They are still two completely different names.

And looking up Ἰησοῦs (Iēsous) in the classical Greek lexicon only finds Biblical uses of the name.

The ending base "sous" is the phoneme in Koine Greek referring to Zeus or generically god

Nonsense.
 
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Radagast

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Most Jewish people will not accept Yahweh as the Creator's name.

Because they don't say it. The write YHWH (יהו&#1492, but they say Adonai or HaShem.

The Greek Septuagint in the old testament translated Yehowshuwa as Iesoun

The Greek equivalent of Joshua in the Septuagint is Ἰησοῦs (Iēsous), actually. The form Ἰησοῦν (Iēsoun) is the accusative case of that name, just as Ἰησοῦ (Iēsou) is the genitive.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The name is expressed in every breath every living creature draws, for the breath is a gift from God, on loan, and when He takes it back, life in the flesh is ended.
That it is the name of the manufacturer stamped upon each breath of life is undeniable, for the breath, itself, says it/breathes it, when indrawn and outlet.


Josephus said four vowels were written on the high priest's turban, and when Jesus returns, that name is written on His turban, which is the "name no one knows [intimate knowing is the meaning], but Himself.
It was banned to be said sometime before Christ was born in second creation human being flesh, as the giver of all breath in that New Creation Human being body, but not all kept the ban, as Jesus and Paul both were accused of blasphemy for saying the name of God, apparently.

Yet in ancient Hebrew writing, that name was used commonly in the names of people, and in Psalms, it is written, "He rides the heavens by His name, JAH!"!
The breath of life is given by God at birth, and a new born living soul of all created kinds "calls" His name, as the owner of that breath which they are loaned for their flesh.

Jesus was -and is forever- YHWH in human flesh, but as to His New Man creation body, the angel said "you shall call His name "Yeshua", which means "Salvation", and was the name Nun gave to his son, which name Moses changed to Jehoshua.

Isaiah and Hosea are both the same name, and mean Salvation.

As to the name of the New Man flesh as Firstborn human being Son of the Father, that name is "Israel", the only other human being flesh created brother to "Adam" the first/old/dead man, and as Kinsman/Redeemer, He is come in that flesh to redeem all the lost seed of Adam -whosoever will- and adopt them into His own DNA flesh human being body in the regeneration, which is that New Name He writes upon every adopted/regenerated son who is adopted into the One Living Spirit, when they receive the hope they await, which is the adoption/regeneration of the flesh of their body, which is what we await for, who are His own into the One Living Spirit, adopted sons.


Isaiah 49 shows that His New Man name, as Redeemer Kinsman/Brother to the human being race, is "Israel".
The Scriptures are filled with references stating that name is invoked over Jacob, and that invokling of His name over Jacob is a sign of the adoption of the flesh in regeneration which every adopted son would receive.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

He is the "New Man", as YHWH in flesh, and His New Name is "Israel", not Adam, which is the old name of the first, firstborn, human being created, now dead, in spirit and flesh, as to being made living and incorruptible flesh, son of God. In three days and three nights His perfect flesh could not corrupt, for as He said, the prince of this world had nothing in Him.
His flesh served as the True Mercy Seat cover for the True Ark of the Covenant, copied in heaven's temple, which Moses saw and patterned in incorruptible gold, upon which the blood of Atonement was sprinkled once, for all -for whosoever will.
His incorruptible flesh could not corrupt in three days and three nights while His spirit and soul were absent form it, and He took it back up forever, and that flesh is forever the True Mercy Seat copied by Moses, and all who are in Him by adoption in Spirit of Life are hid in God with Christ, seated in spirit with Him in the heavens, and undergoing metamorphosis, to come forth as Sons of God in the opening of that Ark of the Covenant in heaven.

Jesus said we are His disciples, which means "pupa", and we are hid under the true Gold Mercy Seat, covered by the Blood of Atonement, awaiting our metamorphosis of the flesh.

Luke 3:38 Adam, son of God.
we are dead in Adam, for the former holy seed to come forth in Adam, from the loins of the firstborn, we were all cast down/divorced from the Living Spirit, and divorced/cut off, from heaven -the third heaven, which is where Paradise, Mount Eden, is that Adam was to reign over earth from.

We are all Adam, as to our human being flesh name, but to inherit the Kingdom, we have to have the flesh regenerated to that New Name in our regenerated transformed flesh.
The New Man name is "Israel".
The old man name is "Adam".
we await the adoption of the body, and the regeneration of it is the DNA rewriting of it to the incorruptible flesh name, "Israel".

Genesis 5:2 male and female made He them, and called their name Adam"...
"In Adam all die, in Christ all are made alive".
We died in Adam when our first father died in spirit, when he was the one prince among the sons of God, in Eden, who died and was cast down/divorced, from God's Eden in the heavens -the third heaven, as Paul declare,s from ancient writings.


2Co 12:2-4
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up [raptured] to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, How that he was caught up/raptured into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.


Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

in Psalm 82, we see the assembly of the sons of God in Eden, God's Holy Hill.

1 Elohym stands congregation [of] El ; he judgeth among the Elohym.
Hebrew words in Psalm 82 shows the assembly of the sons of God [the holy Watchers, set over earth] , and the warning He gives them to judge righteous judgment over earth is that if they do not judge righteously, they will die like Adam, the one prince, and be cast down like he was.

7 .but die Adam fall one prince.


Adam was divorced from the Living Spirit and became dead in spirit and his flesh began to be corrupted by "Death", the Satan who feeds Abaddon the souls of his destruction who have died in unrepentence, and Abbadon is the Satan set over Sheol below earth.
In the end, Death and Destruction will be cast into the Lake of Fire, but for now, they reign over the Adam flesh and the souls of Adam who die in unrepentence.


So, the breath of Life is loaned by YHWH to all flesh, but to inherit the kingdom of God, the Flesh of Adam must be metamorphosed to that of the New Man name, which is the adoption of the body.



Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


Sirach 36:14
14 Have mercy on thy people, upon whom thy name is invoked: and upon Israel, m whom thou hast raised up to be thy firstborn.

Jacob saw YHWH, in the "Angel of His Face/Presence/Penuel, and built an altar naming it "El, Elohe, Israel" -"God, the Mighty God, Israel", the name of the Son of God as the Redeemer who was to come, and adopt the seed as His own son's after redeeming


Gen 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

2 The Lord hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.
3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there He spake with us;
5 YHWH Elohym of hosts; YHWH is his memorial".
 
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BL2KTN

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I'm growing tired of correcting you, it never being acknowledged, and then moving onto new things for you to call "nonsense". Go play with somebody else if that's how you're going to act.
 
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Radagast

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Radagast

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I'm growing tired of correcting you

I'm sorry, but you were quite wrong on several points -- as could be verified from any good Greek textbook, and from the link I gave.
 
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