Troubling Verses

Kim R · Dec 23, 2016

Does God forgive these things or is the guilty person condemned forever?

"He who loves father and mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me." Matthew 10:37-38.

"But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

rocknanchor · Dec 23, 2016

Have you not read what God expects of us? It is fully known to Him both the strength and impact of the word upon us. The scriptures you recall have a piercing effect (Hebrews 4:12), but God cares for you and isn’t all about “setting the record straight” around here. He cares so much, that ALL cares we have are to be rounded-up and given to Him, Jesus. But just as it does impress from time to time, do keep in mind all the different levels of growth concerning so many of our brothers and sisters that in the faith, just as God wills for us to know, from the simplicity of “milk”, to the maturity required to digest “strong meat”, all He requires is to trust Him, and that does involve patience on your part.

Just my two-cents worth on the possibility of infractions of these verses. If you feel you have, God forgives all. If you feel the need to go this way or that, give it patience, He will supply if that is His will.

“, , strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age” (Hebrews 5:14)

BeStill&Know · Dec 23, 2016

Kim R said:
"He who loves father and mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me." Matthew 10:37-38.

Short and sweet > neither your mother or father no matter how great they may be can bring you SALVATION and all that SALVATION does for you here on earth or in Heaven. Right ?
Your greatest love is God, who knitted you in your mothers womb.
Psalms 139:13
You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb.
Exodus 20:3 "You must not have any other God but me.

Ken Rank · Dec 23, 2016

Kim R said:
Does God forgive these things or is the guilty person condemned forever?

"He who loves father and mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me." Matthew 10:37-38.

"But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

We exist in a fallen state and will not be perfected until messiah returns. By definition that means we are imperfect... and as such, how could an all-knowing God not expect to see error from time to time in us? I believe, Kim, that God not only expects to see error, it is error that He teaches us through. Think about it... when you learn you have been doing something the wrong way, what is about to happen? Two things I guess... we can mope around and feel sorry for ourselves or we can learn a lesson and move on attempting not to repeat the mistake. That is what God expects, I believe... us to learn from our mistakes and grow from them.

faroukfarouk · Dec 23, 2016

Yes, we do need to let the Scriptures search us daily, prayerfully.

Jim Langston · Dec 23, 2016

Kim R said:
Does God forgive these things or is the guilty person condemned forever?

"He who loves father and mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me." Matthew 10:37-38.

"But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

The only unforgiveable sin is blashphamy of the holy spirit. If you take up your cross and follow Him He will forgive you.

Man's teaching if you're saved you don't have to worry about it. However, I read, whoever cries father, father will not inherit eternal life but those that do the will of My father in heaven.

Kenny'sID · Dec 23, 2016

I tend to agree, with the flow here, however, if that is the case, what do the verses mean? What are the verses saying if they are not disagreeing with us? At least I think that is what the OP wants from us.

JackRT · Dec 23, 2016

Matthew 27:25(NIV)All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”

Over almost two thousand years this little verse has been a death sentence for literally millions of Jews. Given the context of Judea and Galilee in the first century, I cannot even imagine that any crowd of Jews, let alone "all the people", would ever have said this.

Ken Behrens · Dec 23, 2016

The verses are a challenge to a higher way. You can be unfit for the reign of God today, and be fit for it tomorrow.

And isn't it good that Jesus died for us before we even knew Him? We do not need to be worthy of Him, or fit for His reign, to be saved, or to earn the graces to become more ready, more worthy and more fit day by day.

Kim R · Dec 23, 2016

I am guilty of these things and I cannot find forgiveness for any of it in the Bible. I seem to be without hope.

BeStill&Know · Dec 23, 2016

Kim R said:
I am guilty of these things and I cannot find forgiveness for any of it in the Bible. I seem to be without hope.

I don't understand??? Is it that you don't believe in changing your mind (repent)???
If you placed your parents above or before God, Change your mind.
If you have not picked up your cross, to follow Jesus, change your mind.
If you looked back to your old life, after deciding to follow Jesus, then change your mind.
If you are waiting to be without fault before you follow Jesus, you will never follow Jesus, B/c He is the only Perfect One.

ToBeLoved · Dec 25, 2016

Kim R said:
Does God forgive these things or is the guilty person condemned forever?

"He who loves father and mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me." Matthew 10:37-38.

"But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

God always forgives His Children. That is a promise that He gives us. He is just and faithful, not us and He is not able to break His promises because God is only perfect. God cannot be imperfect, it is impossible.

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Kim R · Dec 26, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
God always forgives His Children. That is a promise that He gives us. He is just and faithful, not us and He is not able to break His promises because God is only perfect. God cannot be imperfect, it is impossible.

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It's great that He always forgives His children, but I am confused at this point. I am not sure that I am His child. I thought I was. But I don't think any of His children would be guilty of the things mentioned in these verses. I am guilty of these things and I desperately hope there is a way for me to be forgiven and reconciled to God. These verses seem to have a "final judgment" feel about them.

Kim R · Dec 26, 2016

rocknanchor said:
Have you not read what God expects of us? It is fully known to Him both the strength and impact of the word upon us. The scriptures you recall have a piercing effect (Hebrews 4:12), but God cares for you and isn’t all about “setting the record straight” around here. He cares so much, that ALL cares we have are to be rounded-up and given to Him, Jesus. But just as it does impress from time to time, do keep in mind all the different levels of growth concerning so many of our brothers and sisters that in the faith, just as God wills for us to know, from the simplicity of “milk”, to the maturity required to digest “strong meat”, all He requires is to trust Him, and that does involve patience on your part.

Just my two-cents worth on the possibility of infractions of these verses. If you feel you have, God forgives all. If you feel the need to go this way or that, give it patience, He will supply if that is His will.

“, , strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age” (Hebrews 4:14)

What do you mean when you say "Have you not read what God expects of us?"

ToBeLoved · Dec 26, 2016

Kim R said:
It's great that He always forgives His children, but I am confused at this point. I am not sure that I am His child. I thought I was. But I don't think any of His children would be guilty of the things mentioned in these verses. I am guilty of these things and I desperately hope there is a way for me to be forgiven and reconciled to God. These verses seem to have a "final judgment" feel about them.

When Christ forgives our sins they are cast as far as the east is from the west, never to be mentioned again.

So with that, forgiven sin is not sin held against you for any judgement. God keeps His promises. Just make sure that you repent for all your sins and ask for forgiveness.

Psalm 103:12
12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

There may come a point when you know that Christ forgives sin, but doubt that He will forgive yours. If that happens that can sometimes be a lack of faith that God does what He promises. Faith is believing God does what He says He will do.

Be blessed.

ToBeLoved · Dec 26, 2016

When Christ forgives our sins they are cast as far as the east is from the west, never to be mentioned again.

So with that, forgiven sin is not sin held against you for any judgement. God keeps His promises. Just make sure that you repent for all your sins and ask for forgiveness.

Psalm 103:12
12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

There may come a point when you know that Christ forgives sin, but doubt that He will forgive yours. If that happens that can sometimes be a lack of faith that God does what He promises. Faith is believing God does what He says He will do.

Scripture says that those who are God's Children, God gives them some hardships to strengthen them. Because He loves us He wants our faith strong.

Hebrews 12:6
5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, or lose heart when He rebukes you. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises everyone He receives as a son.” 7 Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

Deuteronomy 8:5
"Thus you are to know in your heart that the LORD your God was disciplining you just as a man disciplines his son.

Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD Or loathe His reproof,

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights.

Pray that God strengthens your faith so you know that ALL His promises are promises for you too. For all of us. Take joy in that, that God never changes His mind because we know where we stand with Him because He never lies. That is a wonderful thing!

Be blessed.

Ken Behrens · Dec 26, 2016

Kim R said:
It's great that He always forgives His children, but I am confused at this point. I am not sure that I am His child. I thought I was. But I don't think any of His children would be guilty of the things mentioned in these verses. I am guilty of these things and I desperately hope there is a way for me to be forgiven and reconciled to God. These verses seem to have a "final judgment" feel about them.

Every child of His was at one time guilty of very serious things. Many are still guilty of terrible things even after becoming one of His children for a time, since His children get healed and thus become better day by day. If you are not one of His children, why not turn to Jesus, and become one. Then the process of healing and victory over terrible things.

I assumed, reading the OP that you are a child of His, or you would not have "put your hand to the plow", so what I wrote above is theoretical in your case. But on second thought, I realize you could have only embraced the Kingdom of God based on what others have told you, and not based on your own choice.

Since I don't know, let's just clear the whole thing up. If you have not chosen on your own, to have Jesus as the Lord of your life, then do so now. If you have already, then you are one of God's children. Thus, you are forgiven, and you can go on from there.

God wants you to give Him your heart. From then on, His grace will empower you to do whatever He expects.

rocknanchor · Dec 26, 2016

Kim R said:
What do you mean when you say "Have you not read what God expects of us?"

Hello. Nothing esp complicated I'm pretty sure to say. But that could have been made clearer had I used a cross-ref verse that tells us what God expects of our receiving the word,

1 Corinthians 3:2
"I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready."

Would you be in agreement with that use? It could be shown in other portions of the word as well. Take the instruction Jesus gave repeatedly, "Follow me." The new convert to Christ being enthralled to rejoice over salvation, this impact can take so much literally, it goes beyond God's will.

If that convert is esp impressed, he may find it unavoidable to start out by faith alone with verses such as,

Matthew 8:20
"Jesus said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

Now in some cases, that may be true to an extent. Otherwise, that convert would be better off taking the Apostle's advise for lodging,

1 Corinthians 11:22
"What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink?"

Hope I have not further confused. Other have voiced other points on this very well, mine is founded on the idea of letting God speak to you in the patience of study. We know He is hard in portions of these passages, kind in others, but always straight as an arrow to lead us to life, righteousness and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Soon, you should notice a change as you grow up in Him, finding yourself questioning less on hard passages, and more of the foolishness of man's ways.

Kenny'sID · Dec 26, 2016

Kim R said:
These verses seem to have a "final judgment" feel about them

I get what you are saying, and that can be scary.

After looking at the verses again, the only one that really has that feel to me is the last one, here:

Kim R said:
"But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

I'm thinking, look at lots wife, she looked back and the results were harsh, very harsh. That one has always scared me, especially because I'm one that believes we must obey God as a general lifestyle to make it, and not just "say" I believe, I have faith. IOW, I feel we have to show it.

So first, that happened in the old testament, a big difference, and secondly, I don't know of too many, or even anyone who hasn't "looked back" even if it was just a quick thought, or not much different than Lots wife did. So if looking back means we've had it, I'd say it's very likely not too many will be saved, if anyone.

That said, it just doesn't make sense that looking back will be held against us. Lots wife? that simply cannot just be ignored, so maybe God was just making a point, he did some pretty harsh things back then, but things did change substantially since Christ came on to the scene.

As mentioned, there is only one unforgivable sin, that is a fact, hands down, and I seriously doubt you've committed it. So you have nothing to worry about..just get back on track, do your best, and ask forgiveness when you mess up. Or basically, be sincere in your belief, and you should be fine.

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