Trouble in Paradise

Helpme22 · Aug 15, 2012

No it's not harsh. It's excellent advice. It really is. The problem is we are upside down with our car loans. We would end up owing about 20k if we sold them outright. We absolutely can not do this. As for the house? I just worry about moving again.

What's worse. Doing this on my own or doing it with my childish husband who won't do anything but make this worse. We are in trouble.

MessianicMommy · Aug 16, 2012

Can you trade them in on a used car that runs well? I don't see why you couldn't roll over what you paid with little else, and the car company simply re-sell for you. There are ways to do it without you getting a huge kick in the seat of the pants. I've never had to do it, but I have a few relatives who have.

I'll second downsizing, and even if it is breaking pride a bit, and it does disrupt your son, moving somewhere well WITHIN the budget, and cutting your losses at the place you cannot afford. Sell what you don't need - ebay, craig's list - yardsale - whatever.
Cut down on cable, internet; quit buying junk food and buy only real food and cook your meals and bring that along to work, rather than eating out..

There's ways to make it work, even if the other person in the marriage party isn't making it happen.

dayhiker · Aug 16, 2012

I'm with the people that are saying you have to down size.

Don't sign anything to please your husband.
Get your own accounts with just your name on them if he wouldn't cooperate.
Buy cheaper food.
Don't go out to eat as often.
Do away extra TV channels.
Downside data plans on the phones.
Don't pay for Lawn care.
Buy cheaper clothes. Or not any for a year, you probably have way more than you need now.
For sure don't send your child to private school.

With your income you can turn this around, simplify and live will look a lot better.

Helpme22 · Aug 16, 2012

Thanks for these helpful replies. I just don't know how to live with a man like this.

He just told me that he wants to use our son's savings to pay for the private school. There's not even enough! He is desperate. It just makes me so scared knowing I can't count on him.

Puptart · Aug 16, 2012

Helpme22 said:
Thanks for these helpful replies. I just don't know how to live with a man like this.

He just told me that he wants to use our son's savings to pay for the private school. There's not even enough! He is desperate. It just makes me so scared knowing I can't count on him.

DON'T let him! Leave those savings alone. If you have to take away any access he has to that money, then do it.

He's being completely unreasonable. Dipping into your son's savings to pay for private school is NOT the way to go. The child is better off in public school with money set aside for his continuing education later in life because with college you don't have an option for free schooling.. plus if you ever really needed that money in the event of an emergency (a real emergency, like a fire or a flood and you have to live in a hotel or what have you) then at least you do have something.

Do not spit it away into private school. I'm not saying private school is bad, I'm just saying if you can't afford it you need to NOT send him to one.

He sounds like he has a bit of a controlling side to him, and it manifests itself in money. He wants what he wants and he'll do whatever he can to pay for it, even if it makes no sense when you are struggling.

Sell everything. Look around the house and anything you lay eyes on that you know you aren't using (and that includes things that are "pretty to look at" but are not helping you live your life), sell it.

dayhiker · Aug 16, 2012

That's why I think you got to separate your money. Get your money into accounts that he can't access.

Is there another man who he respects for how he handles his money?

Luther073082 · Aug 16, 2012

It's sad that it's gotten this far, but I'm in agreement you need to take complete control of the finances at this point. Does your husband even have a concept of how far behind you are financially speaking?

At this point, looking bad is the least of your worries. I wouldn't even be concerned with it at all. . . Think of it this way. . . you are the Captain of the Titanic, your ship just hit an iceberg. . . You can either start getting everyone in the lifeboats and be embarrassed that you lost the ship. . . Or you can just let everyone go down with the ship.

I get there is real embarrassment with doing the things you are going to have to do. But it's going to be a lot worse if your creditors are taking you to court and having your wages garnished and then you have to declare bankrupcy.

Figure a way to get rid of the lease and get yourself in a SMALL apartment. Don't buy anything you don't absolutly have to have. Forget about private school. If you live in a decent community, public schools arn't that bad.

Cars. . . I HATE new cars for this reason. . . they drop so fast in value that you are pretty well upside down on them for a long time.

What other debts do you have? Credit Card debt?

Helpme22 · Aug 16, 2012

I suggested moving and my husband said absolutely no. We did just move into this home and it is awful ...but I don't think we have a choice. He is just a complete wreck and is SO against my suggestions.

Our debt is credit card and a lawsuit settlement from a few years ago. It is 600 a month.

dayhiker · Aug 16, 2012

You need to stop charging in the credit cards.
I'd say your husband shouldn't even have a CC. But I don't know a good way to get them away from him.
There are two types of help with credit cards. The ones that work for the CC companies and the independent ones. I'd suggest finding an independent CC counselor and having a good talk with them.

I still think you can get thru this, but you will be fighting not to keep your husband happy like you have been doing, but as Luther says fighting to save those in the ship. The embarrassment will happen no matter what ... at most you can kick it down the road a few weeks. Better to start the process now.

We are hear for you.

Luther073082 · Aug 16, 2012

If he continues in his blindness and ignorance to the situation, you may have to seperate from him. Don't divorce him but seperate from him physically and financially, get your finances in order and let him take the hit.

The seperation should be intended to be temporary until he becomes somewhat financially responsible.

This is sort of like being on the Titanic, the bow is in the water but your husband is still denying that the ship is even sinking. Eventually you have to get on a lifeboat by yourself and let him feel the cold water. Then when he realizes what a mess this is. . . then you let him on the lifeboat and work on getting out together.

But if he's not going to get off the ship, you need to get off it yourself.

At this point I'm thinking seperation. No divorce. . . the intention of this is to save yourself financially speaking and put him to where he is going to experience the pain of his willful ignorance to the reality of the situation. The reason this has been able to go on for so long is your high income has protected him from the pain of being irresponsible. You can't let that go on.

dayhiker · Aug 16, 2012

well said

LinkH · Aug 16, 2012

Helpme22 said:
Thanks for all of these great replies. I really appreciate it.
Here's the thing: I can't just squirrel away money. We are using every red cent. At this point, the only big purchases are our rent and car payments. The rest is purely paying bills. I don't make 250 anymore. I make 150 and my husband makes 78k. Obviously, still good income. But, he is insisting that our son go to private school this year ... At about 600 a month. I would love that, too. But the money is tight.

I started going to therapy again. My husband is back on his typical pattern of being "mr perfect" just as he was after the incident of "accidentally" kicking our son. He made me this gourmet dinner tonight and says all of a sudden he wants to "pamper me".

It's just killing me. The thing is his tactics work. He starts that stuff and I feel bad about hurting him or making him mad.

It may not be manipulation. He may see you are stressed and miss the 'old you' when you were under less stress.

I have honestly considered telling him that I want to work less ... Take a new job with more child friendly hours and that I'm nearing an emotional meltdown.

He will freak out. I just know it. We signed a year lease on our house and he will use that against me.

I think you two are experiencing a role reversal problem. It sounds like he is taking on your role in some ways and you are taking on his role. You are both going to have to work on that.

Your husband needs a complete change of attitude regarding his role. I really do think a well-chosen men's conference might help him.

Now, there is a certain issue deemed off topic by the rules of this forum because of past debates, but I can point you to the instructions for wives in Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, and I Peter 3. That is one reason I am a bit uncomfortable with the advice here to shut your husband out of the finances and take some of the hardball tactics advised here. Some things are more important than money. It may be wise for you to lovingly and respectfully discuss separating your money from his.

If you both took a Crown financial course or if he went to a Voddie Baucham meeting or saw a video, or if something else shifted his paradigm, he might agree to try to work toward letting his salary pay all the family's needs. If your salary could go toward savings and extras, that would be good.

He also needs to get some help with that bottle of wine issue. That is pretty serious.

He may not be scared if you opened up a conversation about being burned out and wanting to work toward being a stay at home mom at some point in the future, if it isn't short term.

But I think bringing it up, might allow me to see his true colors. If he doesn't step up I think I'm done. Am I out of line?

I think you should get the whole divorce line of thought out of your mind, and instead think of how to please and obey God in the life you have been given. Women with men who earn a dollar a day can stay with them for life. You shouldn't split up over money. Most of the husbands in world history lived below our poverty line, probably.

LinkH · Aug 16, 2012

Lease-- I think I like that word in your situation. It's a lot better than mortgage. It sounds like if you tough it out for six months to two years, you can get a cheaper place. Some parts of the country are just expensive. You may want to start looking months in advance trying to find that combination of a cheap, reasonably spacious house, near a really good school.

I've been in grad school for 5 years, and my wife stays home with the kids. Here is my advice on living frugal. Posters have suggested keeping about getting rid of cable channels. I have an antenna. It's better if you don't watch a lot of TV anyway. Want to shop for clothes? I wouldn't recommend getting underwear there, but certain clothes you can buy at thrift stores. Do they have large flea markets in your part of the country, maybe those climate controlled centers that are like big bazaars that they call flea markets? You can sometimes get T-shirts for $2 a piece there. Otherwise, there is Walmart. You may need decent shoes, but if you can get buy with wearing Walmart and yard sale clothes in your profession, that is a way to save money.

Do you have too much furniture to fit in a small house? Sell it on Craigslist.

For food, rice and beans do not cost a lot. A rice cooker may be worth the investment if your family likes rice. Vegetables are usually cheaper than meat. Take your lunch to work rather than eating out.

You have a car payment now. Maybe you can advertise for 'take over payments.' I have never owned a new car, and I don't think I ever will. If I got a million dollars tomorrow, I don't think that is enough to justify getting a new car. I still have to be a steward of resources. I would do it if I felt God was calling me to get a new car or if I lived in a country where used cars did not depreciate much (I know one such country). If you can get out of your car, get one that already lost the 30% of value when you drove it off the lot.

Puptart · Aug 16, 2012

Luther073082 said:
If he continues in his blindness and ignorance to the situation, you may have to seperate from him. Don't divorce him but seperate from him physically and financially, get your finances in order and let him take the hit.

The seperation should be intended to be temporary until he becomes somewhat financially responsible.

This is sort of like being on the Titanic, the bow is in the water but your husband is still denying that the ship is even sinking. Eventually you have to get on a lifeboat by yourself and let him feel the cold water. Then when he realizes what a mess this is. . . then you let him on the lifeboat and work on getting out together.

But if he's not going to get off the ship, you need to get off it yourself.

At this point I'm thinking seperation. No divorce. . . the intention of this is to save yourself financially speaking and put him to where he is going to experience the pain of his willful ignorance to the reality of the situation. The reason this has been able to go on for so long is your high income has protected him from the pain of being irresponsible. You can't let that go on.

I agree with this.

LinkH · Aug 16, 2012

I disagree with the separation advice. That's starting the ball rolling toward divorce, and once it's rolling, you can't always make it stop. Has she even pursued many of the other avenues to wake him up? And you guys are suggesting separation?

What ever happened to believing the commandment of the Lord in I Corinthians 7, "...let not the wife depart from her husband..."

Helpme22 · Aug 16, 2012

Here is our issue. He isn't spending large amounts of money behind my back. It's just that he doesn't want to adjust our house etc. he said we can stop eating out etc. he's willing to throw that out there, but he doesn't want to move again. I don't either and we have moved numerous times because of financial problems. It's just that I finally have has a come to Jesus.

So I do worry about breaking a lease and moving 1 month after renting this house. I feel like I'm a psycho. But we could drop our rent by 1k a month at least.

If I move with our son and find a better cheaper lease... Do I just leave him in that big house? His salary barely covers the rent. I would totally screw us over.

Puptart · Aug 16, 2012

I understand that you don't want to move.. but from what you've said so far, you don't have a choice. You have to move, because you can't afford to live where you're living. It's not the end of the world to move 1 month after signing a lease. Being broke and going further and further into debt, however, may end up being the end of many things unless you fix it now.

If you leave with your son for a cheaper place and he can't afford the rent on the current house, he'll be forced to face reality pretty quickly. If you do leave the house, talk to the person who leased it to you and try to have your name removed from the lease. Let it be in his name only if you aren't living there, to ensure you are protected.

Hopefully he will come around when faced with the stark reality of being unable to afford the place all on his own.

LinkH · Aug 16, 2012

If you break the lease, what is the law where you are-- you have to pay the rent anyway until he finds a tenant, or you are responsible for the whole year, or whatever.

If you can pay the bills, don't move. Being responsible for paying for two residences isn't going to cut it.

Go talk to a pastor or Christian counselor before separating based on the advice of some people you don't know on the Internet who have no training, whose marriage background you know little about, haven't met your husband and don't relate to him and care about him as a real human being they know, and who don't know the whole story. THAT would be crazy. My wife likes to say to friends who want marriage advice never get married advice from someone who is divorced. Or maybe it's who has been divorced. It's better to get advice from someone who can relate to your struggles whose actually succeeded in holding their marriage together. Your marriage is worth more than $328k per year.

You signed the lease already. It expires eventually. Maybe you will have to cut corners until then.

When the lease expires, I think you'll be able to find some place for a quarter to a half of your husband's income. Honolulu has high rents, and you can find a two-bedroom there that's nice for $1500 if you really shop around. If you shop around my guess is you could find something cheap on the west coast or in the north east for less than $2000. But if you just signed a lease and moved in don't move out if you are going to have to pay on the lease you signed anyway.

ImaginaryDay · Aug 16, 2012

Helpme22 said:
Here is our issue. He isn't spending large amounts of money behind my back. It's just that he doesn't want to adjust our house etc. he said we can stop eating out etc. he's willing to throw that out there, but he doesn't want to move again. I don't either and we have moved numerous times because of financial problems. It's just that I finally have has a come to Jesus.

So I do worry about breaking a lease and moving 1 month after renting this house. I feel like I'm a psycho. But we could drop our rent by 1k a month at least.

If I move with our son and find a better cheaper lease... Do I just leave him in that big house? His salary barely covers the rent. I would totally screw us over.

I'm also of the opinion that you don't need to be entertaining the thought of leaving/separating from your husband. The situation does not warrant it (imo) and may circumvent what God can do in the current circumstances to strengthen your marriage. I believe you have been given good advice on how to cut financial corners in the short term, and have also got some good advice as far as some financial management seminars and the like to look into to help dig out of the situation you are in.
In the meantime, I would pray that your husband would recognize his role in the home and marriage and not leave you to make decisions that he needs to be making himself.

dorig59 · Aug 16, 2012

She has several problems here, guys, that some of you are ignoring or not reading. You really cannot break a lease without permission from the landlord, which is quite doubtful. If you break it & go elsewhere, you could be sued for the balance of the lease term. And if you're upside down on a car, there's no solution there either. As far as separating your money, did you say that all the money earned goes to the bills? If so, if there's truly nothing left, then there's nothing to separate out.

IMO I think you should let the private school go, at least for a year until the lease is up. Then you go rent a cheaper place & maybe put him back in private school. Everything else that has been suggested such as selling whatever you can & getting rid of extras like cable, those are good ideas but I don't know how much of an impact it will have.

Also, don't ask him if you can do this or that with regards to financial decisions. You are by far the main wage earner & you're also the only adult in this marriage. Do what you have to do.

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