• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Transitional Fossils Explained!

philadiddle

Drumming circles around you
Dec 23, 2004
3,719
56
44
Canada
Visit site
✟4,522.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In another thread there was a question asked about transitional fossils. It was a bit off topic so I figured I'll just start a new thread. I've posted this before but it was many months ago and I can't be bothered to look it up again.

There are lots of transitional fossils. To fully understand just how many there are requires a lot of reading. Something that can be a problem when dealing with this topic is that if someone doesn't want to recognize what a transitional form is, they will never accept that they exist. For example, if fossil A is found 300 meters down in the strata, and fossil E is found 40 meters down in the strata, i could say that E evolved from A, to which I would be asked to provide transitional fossils. So after much searching I find fossil C, which is 160 meters down and shows characteristics of both A and E. Follow me so far? Now someone could say, "But now you have two gaps, prove that A evolved into C, and that C evolved into E. So i search and search and eventually find fossil D, 100 meters down. It is a perfect example of characteristics between C and E. But someone could still say, "now you have 3 gaps, A to C, C to D, and D to E."
See how this could go on and on? That is why it's important to define what a transitional fossil is.

Anyways, let's take whale evolution as an easy to explain example. Whale's allegedly evolved as a part of the ungulate group (hooved terrestrial mammals). This was first put forward along with many other possible ancestors, but there was little evidence at the time. Now there are lots of fossils supporting the evolution from ungulates, while the other option that had been put forward are now laid to rest.

Sinonyx - wolf sized ungulate which also speciated into other modern day hooved mammals. It existed 60 million years ago.
Pakicetus - 52 million years ago.
Ambulocetus - 120 meters higher in the strata
Rodhocetus - 46-47 million years ago
Basilosaurus - 35-45 million years ago
Dorudon - about 40 million years ago

Both basilosaurus and dorudon are fully aquatic whales, and led to the whales we have today. Not only are these all sequential in features, but they are found in order in the strata layers.

For a lot more detail and other evidences for whale evolution, here is my source http://www.talkorigins.org/features/whales/

The point of this post is to demonstrate that there are lots of intermediate fossils, but I can't be expected to go through them all so I'll just reference some of them for you with links.

Horse Evolution
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/horses/horse_evol.html
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/vertpaleo/fhc/fhc.htm

Homonids - Human Evolution
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/ances_start.html
http://www.becominghuman.org/

Vertabrae Evolution
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

reptile-birds
reptile-mammals
ape-humans
legged whales
legged seacows
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#morphological_intermediates

various
http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Transitional_fossils#Some_Examples_of_Transitional_Fossils
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/fossilhalls/vertebrate/

Fossil museum is a great site.
http://www.fossilmuseum.net/index.htm

I'll summarize some of the links so you can get to what u want quickly

The link http://www.fossilmuseum.net/FossilSites.htm shows a general tree of life, as per the fossils found in the strata. You'll notice when you look at the page all the white underlined words are links you can click to get more detail from. It also gives the places of most of the actual sites the fossils were found at.

http://www.fossilmuseum.net/FossilGalleries.htm is a list of fossils to which you can view the images.

http://www.fossilmuseum.net/fossilrecord.htm is a fossil record and has links at the top of the page to different eras.
 

JGL53

Senior Veteran
Dec 25, 2005
5,013
299
Mississippi
✟29,306.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
In Relationship


Nice job.

Also, someone pointed out on another thread that ALL fossils are transitional fossils.

How could each and every one not be, as 1. no two fossils are exactly alike and 2. each fossil, at least as a general type, lies between all other fossils on the scale of evolution, even though there are multi-branches and many individual fossils were dead ends (did not have progeny).
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Every creature has similarities, no matter if they are different species. Horses, and insects, both have legs, heads, guts, etc. Same designer for both. All critters need food, water, etc., and that alone makes them similiar.

A con man will build his credibility up over time with his 'mark' until the time is right to spring his con. Satan, it is said, "Hides a pint of poison in a lake of truth." So it is with science and their con, or, their pint of poison: the (dreaded) Theory of Evolution.
 
Upvote 0

JGL53

Senior Veteran
Dec 25, 2005
5,013
299
Mississippi
✟29,306.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
In Relationship

Right. Modern science is a just a con job. There isn't any Hubble Telescope - not really. Somebody just painted all those pictures of alleged galaxies, just to fool the gullible.

Better stick with the water into wine stuff. Easier to understand. It's Jesus magic. Believe and all will be well.
 
Upvote 0

Calculon

Active Member
Jul 24, 2007
64
2
35
Alberta, Canada
✟30,195.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single

Seeing as how special relativity contradicts the bible, does that mean that Einstein = Satan?
 
Upvote 0

Blayz

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2007
3,367
231
60
Singapore
✟4,827.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
the (dreaded) Theory of Evolution.


You dread it? kewl.

Are there any other inanimate abstract concepts you dread? gravity? wave-particle duality? How does this dread manifest? Do you break into a cold sweat and go all a-tremble when the black suited Theory of Evolution strides into a conversation, twirling its mustache?
 
Upvote 0

Nitron

HIKES CAN TAKE A WALK
Nov 30, 2006
1,443
154
The Island
✟24,895.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Reactions: MarcusHill
Upvote 0

JGL53

Senior Veteran
Dec 25, 2005
5,013
299
Mississippi
✟29,306.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
In Relationship


In any case, many thanks for the link. I think this guy is hilarious. I had seen his video about Mormons, wherein he flies to Utah and evangelizes door to door, with the holy book of Darwin, in retaliation for the Mormon's proselytizing. Now I see there is a whole series of these. Speaking of bigotry, he even has one on the KKK.
 
Upvote 0

Maynard Keenan

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2004
8,470
789
39
Louisville, KY
✟35,085.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat

Typical answer of a right-wing christian. If you can't win an argument, just blame Satan and run.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Every creature has similarities, no matter if they are different species. Horses, and insects, both have legs, heads, guts, etc. Same designer for both. All critters need food, water, etc., and that alone makes them similiar.

The same desinger made birds and mammals, so why don't we see a mammal with feathers or a bird with teats? I see no reason that a creator, having built mammals and birds, could not give bats feathers for flight. I see no reason why birds could not have three middle ear bones instead of one.

The problem for the "same designer/same design" argument is that life falls into a nested hierarchy. This is in stark contrast to designed things which do not fall into a nested hierarchy. For instance, GPS devices can be found in boats, planes, and automobiles. There is no reason that a designer would not use a GPS device only in one type of transportation. For the same reason, there is no reason that a supernatural deity would have to limit feathers to birds or fur to mammals. There is no reason that mammals can not have cephalopod eyes, or vice versa. There is simply no reason, except for evolution, that we should see this pattern of similarity.


Actually, you have described every creationist organization I have run across. Should I give you examples?
 
Upvote 0

Moo

Neo-Storkist
Aug 23, 2004
151
5
48
✟306.00
Faith
Agnostic
Every creature has similarities, no matter if they are different species. Horses, and insects, both have legs, heads, guts, etc. Same designer for both. All critters need food, water, etc., and that alone makes them similiar.

What do you think a real transitional fossil would look like then?

Whenever a transitional fossil is found, Creationists always say "God made it like that!!" and "common designer!!" etc, so please describe a fossil which you'd accept as being transitional.
 
Upvote 0

AngryWomble

Regular Member
Aug 13, 2006
384
27
✟23,202.00
Faith
Agnostic
Right. Modern science is a just a con job. There isn't any Hubble Telescope - not really. Somebody just painted all those pictures of alleged galaxies, just to fool the gullible.

Shhh...!!! Don't give the game away!

We could keep this forever, so let's just simplify it by saying:

All Scientists = Satan!

I know i'm a bit warped and twisted but i'm not that bad.....honest.....
 
Upvote 0

philadiddle

Drumming circles around you
Dec 23, 2004
3,719
56
44
Canada
Visit site
✟4,522.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Also, someone pointed out on another thread that ALL fossils are transitional fossils.
Not true. Some fossils are the end of a species that became extinct. They didn't evolve into anything else so they wouldn't be transitional.
Of course you don't care, thick people never do.

Let's all sing 'I'm a Christian and I don't care.'
I'm thick? What does me being a Christian have to do with anything? Seriously dude, what are you even talking about?
 
Upvote 0

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
Site Supporter
Dec 25, 2003
42,070
16,820
Dallas
✟918,891.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Of course you don't care, thick people never do.

Let's all sing 'I'm a Christian and I don't care.'

Where did you get this from? Phil put a lot of time into the OP and he was commenting on how no anti-evolutionists had a decent response.

Save the "stupid xians" crap for General Apologetics will ya newbie?
 
Upvote 0