Touching...

Is petting a girl's chest sinful? I believe the the difference between lust and attraction is when you've crossed the line from being attracted to the person you lust and go completely for a sexual gratification thing. So if I'm kissing my girlfriend whom I've made in my mind I'm going to marry and I touch her chest not for sexual gratification but rather as an act of affection and to make her feel better.

I'm thinking it's all behind the intent. My intent is not what I want to do to her, but rather what I want to do for her. Eh? Discuss.

comeing from my own experience, when you get to 2nd base, it makes it all the more easier to try and steal 3d, possibly go for a Home Run.
ITs natural normal, biological to try and score.
If your a male, I dont understand how 2nd base CANNOT be nonsexual. I think you are kidding yourself, dude.

comeing from my own experience, when you get to 2nd base, it makes it all the more easier to try and steal 3d, possibly go for a Home Run.
ITs natural normal, biological to try and score.
If your a male, I dont understand how 2nd base CANNOT be nonsexual. I think you are kidding yourself, dude.

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I see the logic in that. But if that were case then maybe we should stay away from relationships completely and just be betrothed. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not doing it just because she's a girl and because the boobs are there and I'm sexually needing to touch her. It's an act of affection. Like a kiss. And yes, I'm not trying to score with her. Not at all, that's not my intent. I think if you can't trust yourself not to have sex just because you're kissing and touching someone, you have poor self control. I work as a sales representative for a Speedshop... self-control is EVERYTHING.

Kisses can be good when its with someone you love or like or whatever. But not when it's just because you want to kiss. You can replace kiss with any other physical touch other than sex.

I'd say that lust is not a desire for sexual gratification in itself (which is healthy), but rather a weakness of character in which sexual desire leads one to act in such a way as to ignore the well-being of the one to which one is sexually attracted.

I don't think that petting a girl's chest with a desire for sexual gratification is lust. That's a morally valid and natural part of sexual experience. It's lust when one uses trickery or force to get sex, or any other situation where one treats one's sexual partner as merely a tool rather than a whole person.

I think you are right that when affection is present, it is likely that lust is not present, and where affection is absent, it is likely that lust is present, so I think you are on the right track.

If she is not your wife then her body does not belong to you for sexual enjoyment. Why do people want to disect the sexual experience in little segments? Why don't people want to hold out for the "total package"? Kissing is the first step (usually) in foreplay, then petting, then intercourse. Don't preheat the oven if you can't cook the roast.

Oh, and any sexual gratification with someone else outside of marriage (before marriage or adultery) is a sin. If it turns you on, you have crossed the line. I would suggest reading the following verses of Scripture:

Romans 12:2
"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
"It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable not it passionate lust like the heathen who do not know God."

1 Corinthians 10:8-9
"We should not commit sexual immorality as some of them did - and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died."

1 Corinthians 6:18
"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."

Ephesians 5:3a
"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality."

Sircnay said:

Kisses can be good when its with someone you love or like or whatever. But not when it's just because you want to kiss. You can replace kiss with any other physical touch other than sex.

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OK, so if I want to touch my girlfriend down there, not for my satisfaction, but to show affection, then that's fine? That sounds like it's what you are saying, as long as it doesn't turn you on you are allowed to do it.

It is impossible to engage in sexual acts without it being arousing. Even if he was touching her genitalia and it didn't turn him on, it would turn her on.

fluffy_rainbow said:

It is impossible to engage in sexual acts without it being arousing. Even if he was touching her genitalia and it didn't turn him on, it would turn her on.

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I know, I was just making a point to how much his comment didn't make any sense at all. Also, I don't think there is any way a guy could touch his girl there without turning himself on.

Sircnay said:

I see the logic in that. But if that were case then maybe we should stay away from relationships completely and just be betrothed.

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LOL maybe your right, since I am happily married( 10 years now) to my first high school girl friend.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm not doing it just because she's a girl and because the boobs are there and I'm sexually needing to touch her. It's an act of affection. Like a kiss. And yes, I'm not trying to score with her. Not at all, that's not my intent.

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It may not be your concsious intent..but sex is also a act of affection, no matter if your married or not. Giving nonselfish affection to the opposite sex best friend is great, and will absolutly lead to ( probably very good quality) sex in my opinion... its natural and normal I just dont see how it doenst lead to sex.
personaly I dont see anything wrong with affectionate pre marital sex,
but how can you deny your natural biological drive? Self control is fine as long as you WANT to have self control...but there comes a point when its natural to go farther into expressing your affection...which willl undoubtedly express itself in the sexual act

I think if you can't trust yourself not to have sex just because you're kissing and touching someone, you have poor self control. I work as a sales representative for a Speedshop... self-control is EVERYTHING.

Kisses can be good when its with someone you love or like or whatever. But not when it's just because you want to kiss. You can replace kiss with any other physical touch other than sex.

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I dont think its a matter of "not trusting yourself" its a matter of agknowledging your own humanity.

would you disagree?

Touching a woman's breast while kissing is for sexual gratification; don't con yourself into thinking otherwise. You're enjoying the sexual experience, but feel guilty that what you are experiencing is lust - and therefore a sin.

If your actions are done in love, respect and full consent, then what about it is sinful? Sexual desire is what creates babies, nomatter how religious you are. Sexual desire is as natural as the desire to eat or sleep. Take sexual desire away, and the human race would be extinct in one generation. One cannot even have sex without sexual desire. Think about it. So sexual desire cannot in itelf be a sin.

If you want to get technical about words, here's what lust means:

Main Entry: 1lust

Pronunciation: 'l&st
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German lust pleasure and perhaps to Latin lascivus wanton
1 obsolete a : [size=-1]PLEASURE[/size], [size=-1]DELIGHT[/size] b : personal inclination : [size=-1]WISH[/size]
2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : [size=-1]LASCIVIOUSNESS[/size]
3 a : an intense longing : [size=-1]CRAVING[/size] b : [size=-1]ENTHUSIASM[/size], [size=-1]EAGERNESS[/size]

People try to whitewash sexuality into a very mechanical, non-personal, for procreation only type of thing. But sharing sexual intimacy with another person is a basic aspect of being human. The moral implications of sexuality is in how we treat others in the process, as wel as personal religious preferences and interpretations.

If lust is always wrong, then a man who has "an intense longing" for his wife is a sinner? How on earth does that make sense. Even "intense or unbridled sexual desire" can be expressed respectfully towards one's own spouse. "Unbridled" simply means "free from restraint" which can be vital to a healthy sex life, and how can "intense...sexual desire" necessarily be a sin in every circumstance?

Bottom line is this...the bible does not say sexual desire in itself is wrong, just the manner in which it is expressed. Having a sexual desire towards your girlfriend/fiance is natural, normal, and expected. Kissing your mother has no sexual desire involved, but every long kiss with your significant other necessarily will - so if sexual desire is a sin, who've crossed that line long ago. So don't be silly about this. Search your heart and be honest with yourself and your god. If you act accordingly, you'll be fine.

Sircnay said:

Is petting a girl's chest sinful? I believe the the difference between lust and attraction is when you've crossed the line from being attracted to the person you lust and go completely for a sexual gratification thing. So if I'm kissing my girlfriend whom I've made in my mind I'm going to marry and I touch her chest not for sexual gratification but rather as an act of affection and to make her feel better.

I'm thinking it's all behind the intent. My intent is not what I want to do to her, but rather what I want to do for her. Eh? Discuss.

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I have to say that I don't find petting a girl's breast to be sinful. Of course, I don't believe in sin - you can do wrong things, like kill somebody, but it's hardly a 'sin'. Expressing your love through physical touch is wonderful, although several people (who kissed dating goodbye, hint hint) would think it's simply one step into the great world of heartache and ungodly romance.

fluffy_rainbow said:

If she is not your wife then her body does not belong to you for sexual enjoyment. Why do people want to disect the sexual experience in little segments? Why don't people want to hold out for the "total package"? Kissing is the first step (usually) in foreplay, then petting, then intercourse. Don't preheat the oven if you can't cook the roast.

Oh, and any sexual gratification with someone else outside of marriage (before marriage or adultery) is a sin. If it turns you on, you have crossed the line. I would suggest reading the following verses of Scripture:

Romans 12:2
"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
"It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable not it passionate lust like the heathen who do not know God."

1 Corinthians 10:8-9
"We should not commit sexual immorality as some of them did - and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died."

1 Corinthians 6:18
"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."

Ephesians 5:3a
"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality."

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Um, if she lets him, and they really love eachother(heck, he said hes getting married). It can't really be sinful.

Kissing, the first step of foreplay? O my, you have alot to learn, foreplay can start well outside the home, half of it is getting the mind ready. As for the "total package", let them "foreplay" without sex, the total package wont be very enjoyable if they don't know eachother enough when its their time..

I corinthians 7:1 (kjv, NASB) Due to the immorallity of this world, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.

I like this verse... Actually I hate it... but yeah. Still working on this standard!

I think that you people are taking the literal translations waaaay to... literally. The Bible is full of meaning and symbolism.

It is good for a man to not touch a woman, I know can't literally mean don't touch a woman. If I saw a flipped car on the side of the road and went over to help I wouldn't be, "Oh darn, I shouldn't touch a woman." and get back in my car and drive off. That's just ridiculous.

If kissing leads to sex, then talking to the opposite sex can lead to sex. Getting out of your house leads to sex.

I think that Lust is merely a desire for something that doesn't belong to you. We've already come to the decision to wed each other. In our minds, hearts and souls we have given ourselves to each other and in turn we're married in the eyes of God.

Sircnay said:

I think that you people are taking the literal translations waaaay to... literally. The Bible is full of meaning and symbolism.

It is good for a man to not touch a woman, I know can't literally mean don't touch a woman. If I saw a flipped car on the side of the road and went over to help I wouldn't be, "Oh darn, I shouldn't touch a woman." and get back in my car and drive off. That's just ridiculous.

If kissing leads to sex, then talking to the opposite sex can lead to sex. Getting out of your house leads to sex.

I think that Lust is merely a desire for something that doesn't belong to you. We've already come to the decision to wed each other. In our minds, hearts and souls we have given ourselves to each other and in turn we're married in the eyes of God.

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I think anyone with commmon sense knows this, Jesus touched many women, but I do not believe it was the same "touch" that is being refered to here.

the same verse in the NIV says marry (instead of touch) a woman.

however, what good can come from touch a girl in an intimate way who is not my wife? Nothing. Just affirmation which should not really be needed in a purely spiritual relationship.

Ben Borg Again said:

If your a male, I dont understand how 2nd base CANNOT be nonsexual. I think you are kidding yourself, dude.

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If you don't think you can comfort someone without wanting to have sex with them I pitty anyone who dates you.

As I understand it, most of what God worrys about is love. We should steal BECAUSE it's not a loving thing to do. We shouldn't kill BECAUSE it's not a loving thing to do, etc. Every rule God has ever made revolves around loving eachother. The bible even discribes God as the embodyment of love.

Sex before marriage (as I understand it) is wrong BECAUSE if you actually don't marry the girl, then the one you DO end up marrying won't be pleased by what you've done.

The deciding factor that I would use if I were you is (unless it goes against something in the bible specifically) If you are doing whatever you're doing to comfort and love the person, not just for lust, and if, for some reason you DON'T end up with this girl, you don't mind telling whoever you DO marry about it and you don't think it will dissapoint her... chances are it's OK.

If you don't think you can comfort someone without wanting to have sex with them I pitty anyone who dates you.

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You call 2nd base "comforting"?!



.

Sircnay said:

Is petting a girl's chest sinful? I believe the the difference between lust and attraction is when you've crossed the line from being attracted to the person you lust and go completely for a sexual gratification thing. So if I'm kissing my girlfriend whom I've made in my mind I'm going to marry and I touch her chest not for sexual gratification but rather as an act of affection and to make her feel better.

I'm thinking it's all behind the intent. My intent is not what I want to do to her, but rather what I want to do for her. Eh? Discuss.

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you are just after your girlfriend

Subordinationist said:

You call 2nd base "comforting"?!

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Can be. Certainly not the only, or most common way to comfort someone. But honestly imagine you're watching a movie on the couch with you're wife. It is possible for your hands to roam a little without trying to seduce her.

The Gregorian said:

Can be. Certainly not the only, or most common way to comfort someone. But honestly imagine you're watching a movie on the couch with you're wife. It is possible for your hands to roam a little without trying to seduce her.

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Excellent point, although this may assume a more advanced relationship than one would have with one's girlfriend, pre-carnal knowledge.