Tokien

ebia · Dec 30, 2014

Taking existing stories and themes and reworking them to say something different - even the diametrically opposite - is a perfectly normal part of human and Christian culture. Going right back to at least many of the Genesis stories even scripture does exactly that. Jesus does exactly that.

aiki · Dec 30, 2014

Tokien

Why do some Christians support/express favor for Tolkien's Lord of the Rings stories? Clearly the imagery of the stories comes from pagan sources. Anyone who's read the Volsung Saga, The Prose Edda, the Poetic Edda and the Kalevala can see where Professor Tolkien found his imagery and inspiration. The dialogue between the dragon and the Hobbit in the book The Hobbit is clearly from the Poetic Edda (poems about Fafnir). Even the character of Beren is inspired by the Norse god Tyr. The balrogs are inspired by the Norse demon called Surt. Sauron, the main villain in Lord of the Rings, shares characteristics of the Norse trickster god Loki. The character of Gandalf is clearly inspired by Odin and Vainamoinen, Norse and Finnish pagan characters. The books even go so far as to suggest some magic is good and not evil. Why would any Christian support or read such books? (I do not consider the movies a faithful rendition of the books considering how awful they are.)

Does Tolkien ever admit to borrowing from these mythological characters and stories? In any case, Tolkien doesn't present his trilogy as fact but pure fiction. And throwing out his tale simply because it borrows facets of other stories and characters from pagan religions is to fall prey to the Genetic Fallacy.

Selah.

BornAgainBrian · Dec 30, 2014

Romans 14 teaches how to handle discrepancies just like this.

If you are personally convicted that reading these stories is wrong, then don't read them. I won't judge you for that and won't discuss the stories in your presence.

However the flip side of this is that those who have no such conviction are absolutely free to read this fiction. They should also be free from judgment of those who disagree.

Leah71 · Dec 30, 2014

Leah71 · Dec 30, 2014

Tina W · Dec 30, 2014

I don't think people should read too much into fantasy type stories and movies. Everyone gets ideas from somewhere and when dealing with fantasy they can't get ideas from reality or it wouldn't be fantasy, so they have to look to mythological stories and things of that nature to get ideas. It doesn't have to necessarily mean they are promoting paganism or worshiping mythological gods, it's just a fantasy story for entertainment sake. Not to be taken too seriously.

Lukaris · Dec 30, 2014

Here is an article mentioning how Tolkien & C.S. Lewis used mythology within an overall Christian message in their writings.

J. R. R. Tolkien and C. S. Lewis: A Legendary Friendship | Christian History

Leah71 · Dec 30, 2014

ebia · Dec 30, 2014

Leah71 said:
Thank you for your response.

Where does Genesis and Jesus do this? I would like to read those stories again.

For example Genesis 1 reworks (to refute) Babylonian creation themes.
Genesis 6-9 reworks older flood stories.
The parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus almost certainly reworks existing folk wisdom.

Leah71 · Dec 30, 2014

ebia said:
For example Genesis 1 reworks (to refute) Babylonian creation themes.
Genesis 6-9 reworks older flood stories.
The parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus almost certainly reworks existing folk wisdom.

Why not burn and completely obliterate such works rather then let evil non-Christians and (evil) females like me read un-Biblical books like this?

ebia · Dec 30, 2014

Leah71 said:
Why not burn and completely obliterate such works rather then let evil non-Christians and (evil) females like me read un-Biblical books like this?

They aren't unbiblical.

Note the signature below

Leah71 · Dec 30, 2014

ebia said:
They aren't unbiblical.

Note the signature below

Where in the Bible does it say this, specially? Otherwise it is unbiblical.

ebia · Dec 30, 2014

Leah71 said:
Where in the Bible does it say this, specially?

You'll find Genesis 1 at the beginning
Genesis 6-9 between chapters 5 and 10
And the parable mentioned in the gospel of Luke.

Otherwise it is unbiblical.

Er, wrong.

Unbiblical denotes something contrary to the bible.
Something not covered by the bible at all is a-biblical or extra-biblical.

Leah71 · Dec 30, 2014

ebia · Dec 30, 2014

Leah71 said:
I am threatened regularly, by your kind, for having books other than the Bible.

They aren't my kind.

Why?

You'd have to ask them

BornAgainBrian · Dec 30, 2014

Leah71 said:
Is this permitted, Biblically? I, personally, know several Christiana who burned their copies of Lord of the Rings once they realized it had even the slightest pagan influence.

If people need to do that to avoid stumbling, that is probably good.

I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. - Romans 14:14

This is how I view this. I don't see anything like this, works of fiction, etc, to be always wrong for everyone. However, if someone thinks it to be wrong, then for him it is. For me, though, it isn't.

Leah71 · Dec 30, 2014

Leah71 · Dec 30, 2014

ebia · Dec 30, 2014

Leah71 said:
Are you not a Christian?

Doesn't make me like to everyone else who identifies themself as Christian.

I've known someone nasty called Leah, but I don't expect you to answer for her actions.

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