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Actually, it's all about context. See, e.g.. Grenz & Franke, Beyond Foundationalism.
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Post-modernist philosophy is so out of context is amazing.
Ive noticed the tendency for one whos argument is weak to fall entirely back on this 'preconceived notions' nonsense.No but you made a conscious choice to promote selective literalism of it which confirms your preconceived notions
In other words, I shouldnt take the bible for what it says...If you would choose to exercise independent analysis you would readily see such is merely an unsupported application of ancient cultural artifacts utilized out of convenience while equivalent measures are ignored.
Actually, it's all about context. See, e.g.. Grenz & Franke, Beyond Foundationalism.
Post-modernist philosophy is so out of context is amazing.
Translation: cognitive dissonance prevails on those seeking to deny reality.
What's PC about receiving the power from God to deny who you are and entering into a heterosexual marriage?
Explain that. Cuz to me, the PC thing to do would be to not denounce gay sex as a sin for fear of the verbal repercussions from people like you.
Ive noticed the tendency for one whos argument is weak to fall entirely back on this 'preconceived notions' nonsense.
Again...*I* didnt write the scriptures.
The bible NEVER shows marriage as being anything but a man and a woman and more than once outright condemns men having sex with men.
Either you accept that FACT or you dont.
And either way, its not really my problem.
In other words, I shouldnt take the bible for what it says...
Everything. Because it is taking a religio-political dogma and conforming to it.
The right wing tries to claim "political correctness" is a concept that liberals do but they do not;
They are among the foremost puerveyors of the concept. For example, a young man attending Sunday services at a Southern Baptist Church in 2004 had a John Kerry bumpersticker on his car and was confronted by irate parishioners who demanded, "How can you be a Christian and support Kerry?" That, Sir, is a demand for political correctness.
Actually that behavior can be seen on both sides. Don't try and act like it's only conservatives who do this. Liberals do this too. In fact, your posts demonstrate this behavior beautifully. You want the right to say that homosexual sex is okay, but denounce anyone who says it's not. Your posts paint you as someone who thinks that all conservative Christians are just waiting for the opportunity to beat and kill homosexuals.In the example you gave, the objection to that is not that it occurs but that it occurs to them. They feel carte blanche to do the same to others. They want the right to speak their views free of criticism but feel entitlement to criticize others' views.
Zecryphon said:You want the right to say that homosexual sex is okay, but denounce anyone who says it's not.
Interesting.It was never designed to be taken literally.
it is applied where it applies.The claim it was is always applied selectively.
We're not denying them rights as human beings. We dont want them getting rights where marriage is concerned because, like it or not, WE believe that the One who created all this that you see and know FORBIDS this abominable 'union' entirely.Actually, most people do not care if someone wishes to say, "I disagree with homosexual acts". The difference here is that one side is deliberately making a serious effort to deny gays and lesbians fundamental civil rights based on "religious convictions".
Im all for the hate crime laws.The actions of the religious conservatives who flood their Senators' voice mail with irate telephone calls demanding that states do away with hate crime laws that protect gays and lesbians from being harmed physically simply for being gay or demand that they repeal laws that protect gays and lesbians from being discriminated against in the workplace hurt other people. Two guys eight-hundred miles away from where you live having a civil union ceremony doesn't affect your life at all.
Now tell me there is no difference between the two sides of the debate. One side is for fair treatment, maybe at the expense of a handful of noisy fundamentalists not getting their way and actually having to work with gay people. The other side is for the discrimination and oppression of a minority group.
Actually, most people do not care if someone wishes to say, "I disagree with homosexual acts".
The difference here is that one side is deliberately making a serious effort to deny gays and lesbians fundamental civil rights based on "religious convictions".
The actions of the religious conservatives who flood their Senators' voice mail with irate telephone calls demanding that states do away with hate crime laws that protect gays and lesbians from being harmed physically simply for being gay or demand that they repeal laws that protect gays and lesbians from being discriminated against in the workplace hurt other people.
Two guys eight-hundred miles away from where you live having a civil union ceremony doesn't affect your life at all.
Now tell me there is no difference between the two sides of the debate. One side is for fair treatment, maybe at the expense of a handful of noisy fundamentalists not getting their way and actually having to work with gay people. The other side is for the discrimination and oppression of a minority group.
HuntingMan said:But when it comes to getting rights as a 'couple', especially a 'married' couple, Im entirely against it.
And yes, the basis is my faith and what the scripture shows about this abominable union of two men or two woman having sex with each other.
Zecryphon said:Yeah, right. LOL
How is getting married a civil right?
So would you support legislation that would make non-Abrahamic religious marriages illegal?This has, until recently, been a religious rite, not a civil right
The government confused this issue when they insisted on regulating marriages, with licensing and taxation and laws saying who could and could not be married and everything else they've done. They should have stayed out of it.
Are you certain that conservative Christians would never, ever vocally oppose laws that protect gays and lesbians? I've heard it argued on this site that encompassing homosexuals in hate crime legislation it will "lead to the imprisonment of godly preachers who preach against the sin of homosexuality". I have heard Christians outside the internet condemn hate crime laws that protect gays and lesbians as "yet another way to cram their agenda down our throats". You may know that you or Christians you know in your personal life would never oppose such laws, but I can assure you that there are some who do.No conservative Christian would ever call their senator to do away with hate crime laws for two reasons. One they could never get a hold of their senator and two because conservative Christians hold the written word of God as the authority on how to treat others. Since hate crimes violate the command to love others as you love yourself, no Christian, conservative or otherwise, would want to do away with any law that protects people from harm.
Which is why I would, personally, be in favor of states re-instating Common Law Marriages for couples who live together a certain number of years.But if we're gonna be really fair about it, I think people who are unmarried and have not gotten a civil union should be entitled to the same protections as well.
I don't recall using the terms "bigot" or "hatemonger" in my post. Trust me, I've seen some conversations on this site and others that were filled with hate and bigotry, but I did not use those terms to describe the opposition.The words you use to describe the opposition, words like: noisy, bigoted, discriminitory, hate-mongers are the same words that can be used to describe your side as well,
Look, I'll be the first to admit that I do not understand your position. I understand it from the standpoint of I was once a Christian and was personally opposed to homosexuality, but I never could comprehend urging lawmakers to pass laws that are discriminatory in nature.Don't act like your all innocent here and it's just the other side that's the problem. We're all simultaneously saint and sinner and we're all part of the problem.
And the "religio-political dogma" in this case would be, what?
Um yes they do. You guys are always the first to complain about social injustices and make grand speeches about how you're gonna fix things, but you rarely ever do.
No, ma'am. That is a question and it was probably based upon John Kerry's stance on abortion, if I had to venture a guess. By the way, do you know what the young man's answer was?
Actually that behavior can be seen on both sides. Don't try and act like it's only conservatives who do this. Liberals do this too. In fact, your posts demonstrate this behavior beautifully. You want the right to say that homosexual sex is okay, but denounce anyone who says it's not. Your posts paint you as someone who thinks that all conservative Christians are just waiting for the opportunity to beat and kill homosexuals.
Interesting.
I take it you are the authority in that matter, then ?
Got a hotline right up to the throne, do you ?
it is applied where it applies. Just like the laws forbidding sex with animals and drunkeness apply where they do.
How is getting married a civil right?
No conservative Christian would ever call their senator to do away with hate crime laws
One they could never get a hold of their senator
and two because conservative Christians hold the written word of God as the authority on how to treat others. Since hate crimes violate the command to love others as you love yourself, no Christian, conservative or otherwise, would want to do away with any law that protects people from harm. Try again. All you're doing with this accusation is insulting a group that you disagree with. So why are you resorting to such unChristian behavior? Because someone disagrees with your position on gay marriage? Yeah, that's a good reason. NOT!
You have an 'us vs. them' mentality too.
We're not denying them rights as human beings. We dont want them getting rights where marriage is concerned because, like it or not, WE believe that the One who created all this that you see and know FORBIDS this abominable 'union' entirely.
Is that your honest observation?
That most people who oppose same-sex marriages are called "bigot" or "homophobe" for respectfully stating, "I disagree with same-sex marriages"? I don't see that.
What I witness are people protesting Gay Pride events and oftentimes they become physically violent.
I see a lot of arguments on this very forum where people call loving, same-sex relationships "vile", "disgusting", "nauseating" and "an abomination". I've heard arguments where people say, "I'm sick of them flaunting their perversion in front of me by holding hands in public!"
What if heterosexual public displays of affection offend gay people? Is that irrelevant? Being afraid of seeing gay couples showing tasteful affection in public or being terrified that if gays can get married it's going to somehow ruin your hetero marriage is a sign of being afraid of gay relationships.
Let the government take away your ability to be married and see if you don't consider it an attack on your rights.
So would you support legislation that would make non-Abrahamic religious marriages illegal?
But then we would have run into the problem of Jews, Christians and Muslims claiming superiority in their marital unions over the non-religious and their unions.
But, then again, it wouldn't be a shocker to me. I did have a Christian on this site once about three years ago tell me that my marriage was meaningless and based on lust because my husband and I are not Christians.
Are you certain that conservative Christians would never, ever vocally oppose laws that protect gays and lesbians?
I've heard it argued on this site that encompassing homosexuals in hate crime legislation it will "lead to the imprisonment of godly preachers who preach against the sin of homosexuality".
I have heard Christians outside the internet condemn hate crime laws that protect gays and lesbians as "yet another way to cram their agenda down our throats". You may know that you or Christians you know in your personal life would never oppose such laws, but I can assure you that there are some who do.
Which is why I would, personally, be in favor of states re-instating Common Law Marriages for couples who live together a certain number of years.
I don't recall using the terms "bigot" or "hatemonger" in my post. Trust me, I've seen some conversations on this site and others that were filled with hate and bigotry, but I did not use those terms to describe the opposition.
Look, I'll be the first to admit that I do not understand your position.
I understand it from the standpoint of I was once a Christian and was personally opposed to homosexuality, but I never could comprehend urging lawmakers to pass laws that are discriminatory in nature.
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