To spank or not to spank?

here they are trying to pass a law to ban spanking. thankfully there is a small christian party also in parliment at the moment and they are opposing it (our governement works by coalition so there are about 6 parties represented in governement).

I am in complete agreement, and I was spanked too. I never considered it abuse. I never saw it as violence. Wow, did I ever dread it though

Sometimes other ways work better. Like, for some people, being sent to your room for the day and not allowed to be with your friends is worse than being spanked. I was usually alone, not seeing many friends during the day, so that wouldn't have worked as well

But spanking sure worked... hehe, I'm not sure which was worse, the dread before the spanking or the spanking itself Sitting in your room for 5 minutes, knowing you were about to be punished, makes you REALLY start thinking about what you did wrong...

I agree that children should be spanked when needed. If there is anything that irritates me are those who put all punishment in one lump. I've read articles that say that children who are spanked are more prone to violence. That's ridiculous!!!

They do not differentiate between reasonable spanking and punishment that is taken to the extreme (child abuse). There is a major difference between spanking a child several times with the hand and beating him until he's in the hospital with broken bones. I say to those who are not able to tell the difference, wake up and smell the coffee.

Statistics show that where there is no spanking, deliquency flourishes. God knew what He was talking about when He had Solomon write, "spare the rod, spoil the child."

And, the other forms of punishment are very .... not so working.

Like sitting down and having a talk. Well, kids learn to be liars and actors REALLY quickly.... it may work with some kids, but only if they are already sensitive to their parents and simply don't WANT to displease their parents. Some kids are like that.... really sweet spirited

To spank!

It's important to be consistent though. Many people keep saying to their kids, "You do it one more time and I'll spank you" - and don't spank until they get really mad. What the kids learn is that the threat does not mean anything, and they can get away with doing what they want if they don't make mom too mad.

On the other hand, I know a family whose little girl knows that when mom starts counting, spanking IS coming after three. So her mom only needs to say, "Jenny, stop it. One, two..." At two, Jenny always stops!

I do agree that children do learn to lie at an early age, so just talking doesn't always do the job. For those children who are just good and do listen and are sensitive, I applaud them.

Also I agree that counting DOES NOT WORK! I was raised by a mother who did not count at all. When she told us to pick up our toys or she would get whatever toy that was left laying around and put it up for a week, she backed it up with action. She didn't have to repeatedly tell us something, because when she said we'd get spanked if we didn't listen, guess what, we got it good. No counting, one two three, no idle threats either.

I don't remember alot since I was so young at the time, but what I do know is, to this day, things are picked up, and dirty clothes get put in the hamper, not under the bed and not in every corner of the house.

When a parent raises a child in the ways of God and according to Biblical principles, it does stay with him. It teaches responsibility. Don't blame others for your actions, which is so popular in society today, but if you disobey, you, and not someone else, will have to pay the consequences.

I am also in favor of spanking. I was spanked as a child, and don't show any long term "issues" because of it. It is important to be consistent, and is equally important to not be angry when doing it. if it's done as a release of frustration, it is for the wrong reasons. Kids can sense that eventually.

My daughters have both been spanked, and my younger daughter knows I mean business. I can usually get her to stop with a look.

Man, I hope that works when she's a teenager.

GREAT topic!!!

I am movin' it to parenting forum where it might be more appropriate.

Originally posted by paulewog
I am in complete agreement, and I was spanked too. I never considered it abuse. I never saw it as violence. Wow, did I ever dread it though

Sometimes other ways work better. Like, for some people, being sent to your room for the day and not allowed to be with your friends is worse than being spanked. I was usually alone, not seeing many friends during the day, so that wouldn't have worked as well

But spanking sure worked... hehe, I'm not sure which was worse, the dread before the spanking or the spanking itself Sitting in your room for 5 minutes, knowing you were about to be punished, makes you REALLY start thinking about what you did wrong...

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smae here.

NOT!!!! It is demoralizing, disrespectful, and not at all the example that God the Father gives us. I was spanked. I have serious issues because of it. I'm not going to curse my child with the same issues, especially since God calls us to teach and admonish our children.

Here is a very good link that supports my position - IMHO, it is all that is needed.

http://www.stophitting.com/religion/10reasons.php

I only caught the last of Dr. Phil's show today, but everything he said is sooo true.  It takes much more dedication and effort to parent a child than to beat it.

Of course, the differences in viewpoint can also stem from how one views children - inherently evil with a strong need to have it beaten out of them or inherently good with a tendency to like to "get dirty" (i.e., make mistakes, disobey, etc)

Originally posted by Jedi
A talk show recently came on T.V. that prompted the question "Should children be spanked?" There's a guy on T.V. (the host) by the name of Dr. Phil, and he's just irritating me to no end right now. He's doing his best to put spanking in a bad light. He said, "If it [spanking] works so well, why did you need to be continuously spanked as a child? Evidently, it's not a very good method of getting kids to stop what they're doing if it has to be repeated so often." What the witty Dr. Phil fails to realize is that kids will continue to rebel whether you let the punishment be spanking, grounding, or any other method (It's called sin; the abuse of free will).

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Well, I won't go so far as to say it's a "free will" issue but it is definitely the nature of a child to rebel.  Children don't "grow out of phases."  Parents get them out of the phase.  Oftentimes, the best biblical method for doing that is spanking, at least until the child reaches a certain age, normally around twelve.  At that point you can start teaching them the reasoning behind what has been enforced.  Try doing that when they're young and you'll experience what I did.  I was kneeling down verbally expressing my displeasure with my two year old.  How ridiculous.  She just looked at me like I was crazy.  About half way through I thought, "What am I doing?"  And then, I put her across my knee and spanked her.  She wasn't looking at me like I was crazy anymore.  She was telling me that she was sorry and she would try not to do it again.  Hmmm...do what Dr. Phil says to do with our children or do what God says to do...yeah...I think I'll stick with God.  Dr. Phil is a crackpot most of the time.

I also thought it interesting to see what God thinks on this subject: "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him" (Proverbs 22:15 NIV), and "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die" (Proverbs 23:13 NIV). Seems like God encourages discipline and defends "the rod" as a means to that end. It's a mere spanking - not a death sentence.

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Actually, the "rod" spoken of there is the Hebrew word for "authority."  However, you are right that in many cases that rod refers to the teaching of your child through physical means, i.e., a spanking.  Another noteworthy verse that illustrates exactly what you're saying here is Proverbs 13:24:

He who spares his rod hates his son,
        But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

God bless

It depends on the kid, and it depends on the circumstances.

A swat on the butt for a toddler who runs out in the street does wonders.

But for most kids, especially the youngest ones, the ONLY thing they learn from being paddled is that Mommy hurt me. Unfortunately, it seems the majority of parents abdicate from child-rearing anyway, and then when things are totally out of control, they expect a spanking to put the whole situation back to normal.

It don't work that way.

Parenting is a 24/7 job, and to do it effectively you have to get up off your rear end and go TO THE CHILD and offer direction, praise, or a reprimand. A lot of people these days crawl home after work and become comatose in front of the TV, and expect their children to "mind" by remote control, meaning they can scream at the kid from the living room, and the child will automatically behave properly. These same fine folks also want the SCHOOLS to do the bulk of parenting, because after all, "they pay their taxes."

That is why you see so many uncontrolled, disobedient, disrespectful hellions in public today.

Discipline isn't something you do when the kid hits school age, either. Too many times, adults will think a swearing, sassy, backtalking toddler is "cute," and then want to tear the kid apart when he is still acting that way at kindergarten age.

Spanking IS appropriate in some cases. But it's not a replacement for proper parenting and adequate discipline.

And Dewjunkie, you are right on the money with wondering about the teen years. Adolescence is rough on the entire family; but if you haven't raised your child to respect authority and behave in a civilized manner, then you are in for a boatload of trouble!


Peace,
~VOW

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
It is important to be consistent, and is equally important to not be angry when doing it. if it's done as a release of frustration, it is for the wrong reasons. Kids can sense that eventually.

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Very good point bro!  That's why if your motive is to teach your children respect for authority, be it God's, yours, or someone else put in that position over them, it is a loving action.  If your motive is frustration, anger, etc it's all about the person spanking and not done out of a desire to love your children but rather a love for one's self.

My daughters have both been spanked, and my younger daughter knows I mean business. I can usually get her to stop with a look.

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Isn't it amazing that so many opponants of spanking think it's better to spend your entire child's life negotiating with them to follow your rules?  Just plain silly.  People are always saying to me, "Wow, your children are so well behaved."  I say, "I would think so.  If they're not they know they'll get a spanking."  More often than not what I hear is, "Oh, yeah, well, I don't spank."  Then I look at their children acting like uncontrolled little maniacs and I think to myself, I can see that.

Man, I hope that works when she's a teenager.

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  You and me both bro!!

God bless 

ITA, VOW. I do NOT believe in spanking as a general rule, but there have been a few times when a well-placed swat has been a good emphasis for my message - such as "Danger! Don't run into the street!" Also ITA with what else you say!

Originally posted by VOW
Spanking IS appropriate in some cases. But it's not a replacement for proper parenting and adequate discipline.

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Spanking is proper parenting.

God bless

To Ref:

I'm cracking up at "negotiating" the rules. Yeah, I've seen people do that, and it's SO ineffective. The kid knows who is running the show!

Once the child understands that Mom and Dad are dictators in this little kingdom called a family, the actual spanking process isn't necessary. There's a patented "Mom Look" that can make a kid cry from across the room. And kids learn, "NO" means "NO." I've refused to leave the house with a child I have felt is not dressed decently. I've sent kids from the dinner table for showing up with ink marks all over the skin, when they KNOW that drawing on yourself for whatever reason is VERBOTEN. And I've gone nose to nose with a teen many a time, and again, there's NO negotiating.

I tell my kids what my parents told ME: namely, since I pay the bills, it's MY house, and if THEY don't like it, fine. There's the front door.

Negotiating. Boy, I'm gonna laugh all night at that one!


~VOW

Originally posted by VOW
Negotiating. Boy, I'm gonna laugh all night at that one!


~VOW

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Yeah, the visual on that one is kinda funny.   What's not funny is that it happens all the time.  I took my oldest son to his first cub scout meeting last night and I couldn't believe the number of children who totally ignored their parents when they were told to do something.  I felt like I was in the twilight zone.  You know what was the coolest thing, though?  I looked over at my son and he had the same look on his face as I did.   I guess seeing kids disrespect their parents and go unpunished was as outlandish to him as it was to me.

God bless

http://www.nospank.net/

NSPCC Call For Government Rethink On Hitting Children Following UN Report
NSPCC (National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children) , October 3, 2002
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Inadequate legal protection from physical punishment in the home is expected to be one of the main concerns of a United Nations report to be published on Friday 4 October.
The UN Committee on the Rights of the Child will list the areas where the Government is out of step with the spirit of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which the UK ratified in 1991.


In its last report, in 1995, the UN Committee criticised the UK law of 'reasonable chastisement', stating that it 'does not appear to be compatible with the provisions and principles of the UN Convention'.

The NSPCC believes that the 1860 law of 'reasonable chastisement' allows some parents to hit their children harshly and frequently with impunity and sends out a dangerous message to all parents that it is acceptable to hit their children.

In 1998, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that UK law does not protect children adequately. However, last November the Department of Health decided not to change the law in England and Wales against the advice of child protection professionals.

NSPCC Director Mary Marsh said: 'Hitting children is incompatible with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. The UN's report will add to the growing pressure on the Government to rethink its inaction over protecting children from being hit.'

Article 19 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child states that Governments should 'take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the child from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect of negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual abuse, while in the care of parent, legal guardian or any other person who has the care of the child'.

Children are protected from being hit by law in Germany, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Norway, Croatia, Cyprus, Latvia and Israel. The most recent country to ban physical punishment was Germany in 2000 and the first was Sweden in 1979.

Our mission
The NSPCC's mission is to end cruelty to children. Our vision is a society in which all children are loved, valued and able to fulfil their potential. In other words, a society that will not tolerate child abuse - whether sexual, physical, emotional, or neglect.

Our values
The NSPCC's core values are based on the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child. They are: Children must be protected from all forms of violence and exploitation

Everyone has a responsibility to support the care and protection of children
We listen to children and young people, respect their views and respond to them directly
Children should be encouraged and enabled to fulfil their potential
We challenge inequalities for children and young people
Every child must have someone to turn to.

This is from a Great Britain site. I found it interesting since the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child was mentioned
Just something to consider.

My daughter will be 2 next wednesday. She has begun the throwing herself on the floor when she doesn't get her way bit. She tried it once at Walmart and I walked away. When she didn't come after what I thought was an adequate amount of time, she got one swat on the butt. She's tried it 3 times since in stores, and each time I walk about 15 steps away from her and she is up and chasing after me. She knows that little game doesn't play in my league, and I don't have much trouble with her doing it anymore. I too have been repeatedly complimented on how well behaved she is. I know it is because she is disciplined. And when I see people trying to negotiate with their kids as they go screaming down the aisle, I just have to shake my head. I have too much pride and work too hard to let a 2 year old run my household.