To sin or not to sin that is the question

thecountrydoc · Jan 30, 2008

OK guys, keep those seat belts fastened. Let's sloooow down a bit. This thread has progressed better than many. Please don't start any arguments.

Respectfully,
Doc
SDA Forum Moderator

Jimlarmore · Jan 30, 2008

Cribstyl said:
Thanks for the chat but no thank for the hitting below the belt.

First off Jim, It was not called for you to call anybody a jazzed up type of OSAS. Then to add injury to insult, you stand up as a hero of SDA cause to say,,,,,

To my knowledge I have never called anyone a jazzed up anything. I have said this about the philosophy or belief that you can sin with perceived impunity and still be saved.

If I was your friend why would you slander my already tarnished reputation. What I said to you was......
you ignor or explain texts away, with questions that disable the context.......

Adventists of all denominations are very keen on what context is all about and always apply it in the Bible texts they use to show a belief system. In all of the cases you say that I have not taken the context into consideration you were wrong. In Isa 66:22 I challenged you and anyone else to show how the context proves that, when the Bible says God will create a new heaven and a new earth and all flesh will come and worship before God each Sabbath, it does not really mean that. To my knowledge you nor anyone else has done that. The mention of dead bodies laying around certainly does not. That is an illusion to the same time and it correlates to Mal 4:1-4. The context before verse 22 certainly does not either. Let's be honest shall we? So far your context positions are weak at best and serve primarily as a way to atempt to invalidate a view that goes against what you want to believe. Thats ok but when you say we ignore context you need to be specific and show how I have done that, so far you haven't.

BTW, if my questions disable a text then the text may not be really saying what you want it to say.

What I said about the SDA church is that they're afraid to post what they believe. Why did I say that?....When I ask questions about their beliefs they question my motives and I get few replies to my questions.
...so we argue about doctrines we dont see in texts.....

CRIB

Your motives are questioned because you come in here with guns blazing expecting us to cow down to your apostate beliefs. Sorry, that isn't going to happen. As far as the church being afraid to post what they believe, please give me an example and I promise you I will post on it.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Cribstyl · Jan 30, 2008

Jimlarmore · Jan 30, 2008

Crib,
I don't have time today to respond to this but will get back with you tomorrow on this.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

p.s. I read your quote of what I said and I still never called anyone of you a jazzed up anything. What I said is what you were saying i.e. "believe" is a jazzed up version of OSAS. That's not calling anyone a name it's identifying what is being said.

thecountrydoc · Jan 30, 2008

Hi Crib,

In a previous post you said:

"I have not been ask any questions about what I believe. "So where are my so called apostate beliefs"?

While Jim is away, perhaps you could explain exactly what you believe. I know I'm interested in your beliefs and I think Jim and others here are also.

Respectfully,
Doc

Cribstyl · Jan 30, 2008

thecountrydoc said:
Hi Crib,

In a previous post you said:
While Jim is away, perhaps you could explain exactly what you believe. I know I'm interested in your beliefs and I think Jim and others here are also.

Respectfully,
Doc

After just being called apostate you may not want to stand in for Jim................I dont expect a moderator to stand by for his opportunity to press my buttons too. You've ignored my answers to your questions so I've deleted my latest correspondence.

Cribstyl · Jan 31, 2008

Cribstyl said:
After just being called apostate you may not want to stand in for Jim................I dont expect a moderator to stand by for his opportunity to press my buttons too. You've ignored my answers to your questions so I've deleted my latest correspondence.

Doc, what you called argument, was me explaining what I said to Jim about him and about the SDA church. Jim continued to insult me while I've been searching the bible for answers for you two and others in multiple threads for as long as my stay here has been.

Dont expect me to cooperate with you or Jim until you find a way to run me out of this side of the forum.

Since you allow your bretheren to attack me unjustly, you've lost my cooperative respect by default.

Xenon · Jan 31, 2008

Cribstyl said:
Doc, what you called argument, was me explaining what I said to Jim about him and about the SDA church. Jim continued to insult me while I've been searching the bible for answers for you two and others in multiple threads for as long as my stay here has been.

Dont expect me to cooperate with you or Jim until you find a way to run me out of this side of the forum.

Since you allow your bretheren to attack me unjustly, you've lost my cooperative respect by default.

He's trying to reach out to you and let you tell your side of things. You made the statement that no one asked you about your beliefs, he was curious, so he did. I doubt that he has an ulterior motive, so don't let your anger get the best of you. Report and move on.

Cribstyl · Jan 31, 2008

Xenon said:
He's trying to reach out to you and let you tell your side of things. You made the statement that no one asked you about your beliefs, he was curious, so he did. I doubt that he has an ulterior motive, so don't let your anger get the best of you. Report and move on.

Thats what I expected from your observation of the facts.

You see an outreach for my side of what things?

The fact that I said to Jim that noone ever ask me about what I believe, was in reply to Jim's claim that my beliefs were apostate....

JimL said:
...Your motives are questioned because you come in here with guns blazing expecting us to cow down to your apostate beliefs. Sorry, that isn't going to happen.

Thats what I expected from your observation of the facts.

You see an outreach for my side of what things?

The fact that I said to Jim that noone ever ask me about what I believe, was in reply to Jim's claim that my beliefs were apostate....

Why would Doc wrap Jim's name arround a request about my beliefs? When as a moderator He knows that Jim conduct is against the rules. Doc was following the fight so closely, when Jim said, I will be back tomorrow Doc said While Jim is away,........ ..I know I'm interested in your beliefs and I think Jim and others here are also.

Why all of a sudden Doc wants to know my beliefs? Why not ask at more reasonble time without Jim name attached? I have no confidence in Doc as a moderator.

Doc and I have a history of him asking for books reports and then ignoring the replies that cost me hours to reply. (That wont happen again.)

If anything was clear, Jim had already put a OSAS label to my socalled apostate beliefs ie, .... but the truth is Doc, is aware that Jim and I have been in dispute for a few threads now.

You're right to say, I should just press the report button and move on. But, I am the kind of guy that hate to leave unfinished business. If someone had a claim against me, I dont delay to take back bad choice of words....yakity, yakity yak,yak......:o

I'm just not the button pushing kind of guy

It's a new day.

IM MOVING ON....but if it come back to me like you see it....I have a right to restate the facts.

CRIB

thecountrydoc · Jan 31, 2008

Hi once again Crib,

I must apologize. It was not my intention to indicate a taking of sides when I said "While waiting for Jim," but merely an attempt to show courtesy for both Jim and you and let the discussion continue upon Jim's return. The request for an explaination of your belief on the topic was truly because of my own interest in YOU and your beliefs. It was not intended to interogate you or offend you.

As for me "letting you hang" elsewhere in this forum, it was not, nor ever will be, my intention to let anyone "hang" after a question has been posed by either participant in any discussion. Thereare times however when I'm physicaly not able to sit at the computer, and by the time I can sit at the computer I may fall victim to the preverbial 'senior moment' and forget to return to the open question. If in the future I forget to answer any question, or you don't understand my answer to a previous question, please feel free to post or PM me. You will not be ignored intentionaly.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

Jimlarmore · Jan 31, 2008

Cribstyl said:
\

It appears Crib has deleted his entire post which contained questions about the law and the Sabbath. I'm not sure why he decided to do that but at any rate I will do as I said yesterday to the best of my knowledge. The only ones I can remember from my reading of his deleted post was for me to show how man kept the Sabbath from Gen 2:1-3 or before Ex 20. So let's look at some Bible texts and see. Gen 2:1-3

1

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Heb 4:4
3

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

To show why I believe man kept the Sabbath from this time of creation I will use some key words we see in these verses.

1. In Verse 2 we read that God rested ( Sabbathed) .This refutes the notion that the word Sabbath is not used until Horeb. The original language says God Shabbathed which is a root word for Sabbath.

2. In verse 3 we read that God blessed the 7th day and sanctified it. When we look up the definition of sanctified it literally means to "set aside for holy use." Whose use could possibly be considered here? Certainly God didn't need it for Himself only. God set it aside for man. This is confirmed in Mark 2:27 when Christ Himself said the Sabbath was made for man.

Now we can go even further with two more texts that tells us that God had statutes, commandments and laws before Sinai. Look up Gen 26:4-5

4

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Here we have God entering into a covenant with Abraham and in direct context with this covenant we have God telling us that Abraham kept Gods commandments, statutes and laws .

Were these the ten commandments as the nation of Israel received on stone? I don't know for sure, the Bible does not tell us that they were but we can be assured that God had commandments, statutes and laws long before Sinai from this text alone.

The last text that deals with God's laws and the Sabbath is Ex 16:23-28

23

And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24

And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25

And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26

Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27

And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Here we have the children of Israel before Sinai gathering manna in the field for six days but were instructed not to gather on the Sabbath. Some did and in verse 28 we see where God asked them how long they would refuse to keep commandments and laws.

Clearly this shows the Sabbath was kept before Horeb when the ten commandments were written on stone and spoken by God's own mouth out of the smoke on the mountain. It also shows along with Gen 26 that God had laws and commandments long before Sinai.

God bless
Jim Larmore

Jimlarmore · Jan 31, 2008

After thinking about this I agree with Crib that saying his beliefs are apostate is an insult. I apologize for saying that to him. Apostate or apostacy is defined as abandoning religious truth. I don't think Crib has abandoned all of the truths in the Bible. I do feel some of his beliefs are false or misdirected.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Cribstyl · Jan 31, 2008

thecountrydoc said:
Hi once again Crib,

I must apologize. It was not my intention to indicate a taking of sides when I said "While waiting for Jim," but merely an attempt to show courtesy for both Jim and you and let the discussion continue upon Jim's return. The request for an explaination of your belief on the topic was truly because of my own interest in YOU and your beliefs. It was not intended to interogate you or offend you.

As for me "letting you hang" elsewhere in this forum, it was not, nor ever will be, my intention to let anyone "hang" after a question has been posed by either participant in any discussion. Thereare times however when I'm physicaly not able to sit at the computer, and by the time I can sit at the computer I may fall victim to the preverbial 'senior moment' and forget to return to the open question. If in the future I forget to answer any question, or you don't understand my answer to a previous question, please feel free to post or PM me. You will not be ignored intentionaly.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

I accept your apology, your honesty fixed the breach...... I too have to beg pardon for my shameful tone and childlike displays...:o

God bless you Doc thanks again.

Cribstyl · Jan 31, 2008

Jimlarmore said:
After thinking about this I agree with Crib that saying his beliefs are apostate is an insult. I apologize for saying that to him. Apostate or apostacy is defined as abandoning religious truth. I don't think Crib has abandoned all of the truths in the Bible. I do feel some of his beliefs are false or misdirected.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Apology accepted You're still top shelf to me. We just need to stay on redeeming 1 statement at a time until exhausted, because when unresolved issue are used to later form a wedge, we get nowhere.

I'm going to take a seven day sabbath, to rest for a while after today.

GOD BLESS

reddogs · Apr 10, 2012

Jimlarmore said:
After thinking about this I agree with Crib that saying his beliefs are apostate is an insult. I apologize for saying that to him. Apostate or apostacy is defined as abandoning religious truth. I don't think Crib has abandoned all of the truths in the Bible. I do feel some of his beliefs are false or misdirected.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Not all the truths, I agree.

To sin or not to sin that is the question

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