Tithing

4thwatcher · Nov 12, 2004

Or better yet ======> Don't tithe at all. It's an unsubstantiated and unScriptural doctrine in the church nowadays.

tithing is a product of faith. you can not give your tithe if your faith is weak, and, you can not GIVE your tithe if you insist that tithing is not scriptural. like the others who give tithes, i too give my tithes through God's grace. to state that tithing is not scriptural must first prove if his/her stand is scriptural. in relation herewith, wish to know from those who doesnt tithe, is there any new testament passage explicitly stating to STOP tithing OR DONT tithe at all?

peace

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

4thwatcher said:
tithing is a product of faith. you can not give your tithe if your faith is weak, and, you can not GIVE your tithe if you insist that tithing is not scriptural. like the others who give tithes, i too give my tithes through God's grace. to state that tithing is not scriptural must first prove if his/her stand is scriptural. in relation herewith, wish to know from those who doesnt tithe, is there any new testament passage explicitly stating to STOP tithing OR DONT tithe at all?

peace

Are you open to debating this topic?

Because as you might note, I have discussed the context in posts prior to this. One thing that people must keep in mind is that context has just as much an important role in exegesis as the Scripture itself does.

Case in point: are you aware of the FACT that the tithe never was currency? Are you aware that the tithe was instituted when currency was common? Are you aware that because there was currency when the tithe was instituted, and that the tithe was specifically stated as produce and livestock; that there is no way for the tithe to be considered money?

I ask at the opening and at the end: are you willing to debate this topic? I have an invitation already set up. It's up to you to take the challenge.

The modern-day tithe doctrine is bunk.

m.d.

Zoomer · Nov 12, 2004

There are many ways to help in a church. Money is only one. You can give of your time, talents, food, or clothing. We try to give as much as we can but it is not 10%. We help in other ways whenever we can.
To be forced and guilted into giving money by saying God will not do something or that you lack faith, is not only unscriptural it is legalistic. Your monetary gifts to church are in no way a reflection of your faith or salvation. Anyone who tells you that is dead wrong. It equates our strength of faith, to the amount of works that we do.

kspchemist · Nov 12, 2004

m.d.,
Can I ask you a question. In Biblical times, what was the main source of currency? Paper currency didn't come into being until about 200 b.c. (or BCE for the Politically correct people out there). Wouldn't it make sense that a major source of currency WAS the livestock, and not coins or paper. So your whole arguement about the tithe has become a strawman.

Rachel Elizabeth · Nov 12, 2004

carine said:
Am feeling confused have been stuggling with different issues health etc and saw a new chruch started where I go to do some shopping offering free christian counselling on issues such as healing and deliverance and family issues,alcholism etc etc!!!!!
Was told I must attend seven weeks of three weekly meetings when I enquired bout counselling.
This church I released is penetcostal which I dont consider myself but thought ok I skip my church this sunday and go to an early 7am meeting.
Pastor at end of some coaching on faith started speaking on tithes and that it must be ten percent and that we can only ask for Gods protection etc if we are tithing 10 per cent.
I am not working due to having some health probs and on my own with my son and struggling financially.
I believe that the new testament says to give according to ones ability and that it is good to give and that we can give in many ways could be our time as well as finances etc.
Came away not feeling too great as the Pastor was saying about spiritual locustes destroying our things if we didnt give 10 per cent and that we could only really be blessed if we gave 10 per cent and could only expect Gods protection etc if we gave exaclty 10 per cent.
I noticed one lady left early and felt sad as there are a large number of people in this area of london with problems and I had been impressed that they had advertised free christian counselling thinking how many in the area would benefit. Yes I know that finances are needed in every organisation this church owns a large building and many others.

So what do others think
about tithing???

Dear friend,

I believe in tithing. If you give God 10% of your income He will bless you MANY times over only 10%! That's a promise God gives in the Bible to us. The money that you give GOD will only multiply! Have faith in God, He will take care of you! May God bless you!

Your sister in Christ,
Rachel Elizabeth

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

kspchemist said:
m.d.,
Can I ask you a question. In Biblical times, what was the main source of currency? Paper currency didn't come into being until about 200 b.c. (or BCE for the Politically correct people out there). Wouldn't it make sense that a major source of currency WAS the livestock, and not coins or paper. So your whole arguement about the tithe has become a strawman.

shekel and other metal based currencies.

Therefore, no, it would not fit in this scheme of things.

m.d.

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

Rachel Elizabeth said:
Dear friend,

I believe in tithing. If you give God 10% of your income He will bless you MANY times over only 10%! That's a promise God gives in the Bible to us. The money that you give GOD will only multiply! Have faith in God, He will take care of you! May God bless you!

Your sister in Christ,
Rachel Elizabeth

Dear Rachel:

If you would like to look at this doctrine deeper, then I would be more than willing to take the time.

Otherwise, you are more than welcome to your opinion; just know full well that what you are saying has no Scriptural basis whatsoever.

m.d.

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

Dear kspchemist:

I wanted to provide you with a Scripture for your evaluation:

Deuteronomy 14
22 "You (11) shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
23 "You shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God, (12) at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may (13) learn to fear the LORD your God always.
24 "If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses (14) to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you,
25 then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.
26 "You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and (15) there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
27 "Also you shall not neglect (16) the Levite who is in your town, (17) for he has no portion or inheritance among you.
28 "(18) At the end of every third year you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in that year, and shall deposit it in your town.
29 "The Levite, (19) because he has no portion or inheritance among you, and (20) the alien, the orphan and the widow who are in your town, shall come and (21) eat and be satisfied, in order that (22) the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

Key points to this passage:

1) the tithe is outlined as produce and livestock.
2) if the distance to travel for this particular celebration is too far, then exchange the tithe for money (for easier travel). This is the only time in all of Scripture that the tithe is even in the same passage as money.
3) this time of celebration was when you enjoyed the tithe for yourself, the Levites, the widows, the orphans, and the alien. It was a party with the tithe. Yet another chink in the modern-day tithe doctrine.

m.d.

4thwatcher · Nov 12, 2004

muffler dragon said:
Are you open to debating this topic?

Because as you might note, I have discussed the context in posts prior to this. One thing that people must keep in mind is that context has just as much an important role in exegesis as the Scripture itself does.

Case in point: are you aware of the FACT that the tithe never was currency? Are you aware that the tithe was instituted when currency was common? Are you aware that because there was currency when the tithe was instituted, and that the tithe was specifically stated as produce and livestock; that there is no way for the tithe to be considered money?

I ask at the opening and at the end: are you willing to debate this topic? I have an invitation already set up. It's up to you to take the challenge.

The modern-day tithe doctrine is bunk.

m.d.

again, is there any new testament passage explicitly stating to STOP tithing OR DONT tithe at all?

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

4thwatcher said:
again, is there any new testament passage explicitly stating to STOP tithing OR DONT tithe at all?

I'll answer yours, and you better answer mine.

There is no "New" Testament passage stating to STOP tithing or DON'T tithe at all.

Now, are you ready to evaluate context, definition, history and so forth? Or are you just going to feel validated, because there is no explicit Scripture to stop tithing?

And lastly, ARE YOU WILLING TO DEBATE THIS TOPIC? Otherwise, drop the attitude.

m.d.

4thwatcher · Nov 12, 2004

I'll answer yours, and you better answer mine.

There is no "New" Testament passage stating to STOP tithing or DON'T tithe at all.

NO IF's & BUTS.., the topic is solved

Andyman_1970 · Nov 12, 2004

I have posted this thought before but I'll do it again...........

I find it interesting in the circles I run, those who, for example, argue Baptism must be by immersion because "it's Biblical" and yet "force" (as in trying to make this fit today - produce/animals somehow = money) the idea of tithing onto our culture today in which it was not designed.............there seems to be a problem with this thinking.

Anyway...............

kspchemist · Nov 12, 2004

1) the tithe is outlined as produce and livestock.

So if a wealthy man didn't own any livestock or had any produce, they didn't have to pay tithes, interesting. The previous statement clearly goes against Scripture. One is to tithe ON THE INCREASE, whether that is money or livestock.

2) if the distance to travel for this particular celebration is too far, then exchange the tithe for money (for easier travel). This is the only time in all of Scripture that the tithe is even in the same passage as money

The question is so what. What was the purpose of the tithe in the OT? To support the Levites. One would have to travel to the Levites, and I would agree that money is easier to travel with, than livestock.

3) this time of celebration was when you enjoyed the tithe for yourself, the Levites, the widows, the orphans, and the alien. It was a party with the tithe. Yet another chink in the modern-day tithe doctrine

A dubious solo intrepretation of Scripture. Please correlate that with Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, sith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to recieve it." THat verse also talks about tithing, and mentions nothing about a "party with the tithe." Also look at Leviticus 27:30-31,
30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
These verses say nothing about having a "party with the tithe". It says that it is the LORDs. Also Refer to Malachi 3:10 where it says we are to bring the tithe into the storehouse.

Another thing wrong with that intrepretation is you foregot to mention about the Levite, the Tithe was to support him.

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

+ poor choice of words

4thwatcher · Nov 12, 2004

You're pathetic.

im not it's YOU who is

you've just boldly accepted that there is NO "New" Testament passage stating to STOP tithing or DON'T tithe at all.

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

kspchemist said:
So if a wealthy man didn't own any livestock or had any produce, they didn't have to pay tithes, interesting. The previous statement clearly goes against Scripture. One is to tithe ON THE INCREASE, whether that is money or livestock.

A tithe is never currency. Do you understand that?

kspchemist said:
The question is so what. What was the purpose of the tithe in the OT? To support the Levites. One would have to travel to the Levites, and I would agree that money is easier to travel with, than livestock.

So what? It clearly shows that the tithe is not money. It can be exchanged into money, but is never money. Apparently, you're missing the simple connection.

kspchemist said:
A dubious solo intrepretation of Scripture.

There is nothing dubious or solo about it. It says it clearly in the Deuteronomy 14. Are you not reading it? Or is it too hard to possibly evaluate that what you're taught from the pulpit is wrong?

kspchemist said:
Please correlate that with Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, sith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to recieve it."

It's amazing. I get to be at everyone's beckon call, but never get anyone to step up in an actual debate on this topic. Takes a whole lot of nerve to just serve up light evaluations such as 4thwatcher.

But alas, I will honor the question. Malachi 3 is best seen as a whole:

8 "Will a man [1] rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In (20) tithes and offerings.
9 "You are (21) cursed with a curse, for you are [2] robbing Me, the whole nation of you!
10 "(22) Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not (23) open for you the windows of heaven and (24) pour out for you a blessing until [3] (25) it overflows.
11 "Then I will rebuke the (26) devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes," says the LORD of hosts.

Let's do a key word evaluation: storehouse, food, fruits, vine, and grapes. What do they all have in common? They are for storage of produce or are produce themselves. Once again, no money.

kspchemist said:
THat verse also talks about tithing, and mentions nothing about a "party with the tithe."

I am well aware of every passage talking about tithing. Don't worry about trying to educate me on them. The tithe in Deuteronomy is one of three. Is that something that you've ever been made aware of? There are three tithes.

kspchemist said:
Also look at Leviticus 27:30-31,
30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
These verses say nothing about having a "party with the tithe". It says that it is the LORDs. Also Refer to Malachi 3:10 where it says we are to bring the tithe into the storehouse.

Once again, produce. No money. Read my statements about about Malachi 3 and the 'party'.

kspchemist said:
Another thing wrong with that intrepretation is you foregot to mention about the Levite, the Tithe was to support him.

Interesting, apparently you do not read very well:

m.d. said:
3) this time of celebration was when you enjoyed the tithe for yourself, the Levites, the widows, the orphans, and the alien. It was a party with the tithe. Yet another chink in the modern-day tithe doctrine

Once again, I'll ask the question of you that no one has stepped up to take advantage of: are you willing to debate this formally?

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

4thwatcher said:
im not it's YOU who is

you've just boldly accepted that there is NO "New" Testament passage stating to STOP tithing or DON'T tithe at all.

Simple, short, and sweet:

Are you willing to debate this in a formal setting?

Because it is obvious that you are quite lacking in context. If you have any interest in proving that you are so correct, step up to the plate. No one has taken me up on it in 6 months. I don't suspect you'll be the first.

israelthebride · Nov 12, 2004

But woe unto you, Pharisees!
for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs,
and pass over judgment and the love of God:
these ought ye to have done,
and not to leave the other (tithing) undone.
LK 11:42

You poor Pharisees!
you tithe mint and rue and all kinds of herbs,
and don't even bother with the JUDGEMENT and the LOVE of GOD:
these are the things you should have done,
and still do the other (tithing).

LOVE, RICOEL
_______

Dear Ricoel:

We've had our brief discussions elsewhere about this very topic, and you refused to debate me on it. Therefore, I need to ask: have your feelings changed?

The way I see it: it's fine if you want to present an opinion, but it's another thing to propulgate the same idea and refuse to defend it.

m.d.

The above is YHSHWH'S WORD, not mine.
It is not for me to defend HIM.
HE defends me.
____________

I tithe, each week, and YHSHWH BLESSES me.
It is your choice if you don't want to tithe.

Knowing YHSHWH as I do, I cannot afford not to tithe.
I could not make it without HIS BLESSINGS.

I give ten percent of what HE GIVES me
and then HE doubles it.
We have a WONDERFUL GOD.
YHSHWH is TRULY in COMPLETE CONTROL.

LOVE, RICOEL

muffler dragon · Nov 12, 2004

israelthebride said:
The above is YHSHWH'S WORD, not mine.
It is not for me to defend HIM.
HE defends me.
____________

I tithe, each week, and YHSHWH BLESSES me.
It is your choice if you don't want to tithe.

Knowing YHSHWH as I do, I cannot afford not to tithe.
I could not make it without HIS BLESSINGS.

I give ten percent of what HE GIVES me
and then HE doubles it.
We have a WONDERFUL GOD.
YHSHWH is TRULY in COMPLETE CONTROL.

LOVE, RICOEL

I know Y'shua as well. Let's not get into a bantering act about that.

Therefore, once again, are you willing to debate me on this? Because you (as are ksp, 4thwatcher, and most others) are not evaluating the context of the passage.

Zoomer · Nov 12, 2004

I believe in tithing. If you give God 10% of your income He will bless you MANY times over only 10%! That's a promise God gives in the Bible to us. The money that you give GOD will only multiply! Have faith in God, He will take care of you! May God bless you!

I am wondering if you have a scriptural reference for this promise of mulitplying money if we tithe.

I give out of the love of God, to support his church and ministries without expecting to get something in return. Like the song we sing in church says, "We give Thee but Thine own, whate'er the gift may be; All that we have is Thine alone, a trust, O Lord, from Thee."

Tithing

Watching Servant

Ineffable

Well-Known Member

Bible Thumper

Well-Known Member

Ineffable

Ineffable

Ineffable

Watching Servant

Ineffable

Watching Servant

Trying to walk in His dust...............

Bible Thumper

Ineffable

Watching Servant

Ineffable

Ineffable

ONE BODY

Ineffable

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency