tithe offering

I must admit that now I have been giving 10%for a few years, and willingly choosing to do so, it has become no struggle to me.
I have heard of a church, where the amount you give is read out, over the local radio station on Monday.

collective action does have a lot of benefits

like one group with 400 dollars can do a lot more then 40 individuals with 10 dollars

buying in bulk
having resources, training, bureaucracy in place to deal with tricky situations
just the fact that most charities/churches do not have to pay taxes on items (in the USA anyways) means that they can stretch out a dollar further then you or i can, which in the end, also helps more people

I help out at a St. Francis DePaul food bank that gives out lots of food to poor families
they work with Department Of Job And Family Services to make sure that the people who we are helping are really in need
I live in a big city, Columbus has about 1 Million people in it, the St. Francis DePaul food bank also works along side other food banks to divide up the city along geographic lines so that people can get help no matter where they live
also the St. Francis DePaul charity is an old and respected name, that opens doors, we get a lot of food donated by big grocery stores
so helping people though a Church or established charity can do a lot more good then just handing out money to people on the street
I am not saying you should stop that, help people in whatever way you can
I am just a bit jaded to the notion of "I do not give money to churches, i just help out people in need"
that might not be the most efficient way to do things

We tithe at the end of service and they never make a big deal about it. Its a big church so Ithink they get a lot in tithes. AAnyways,Ialways give. This church has been a blessing to me. And I know God will use it to bless others. They say give first, but they never say give to themfirst

TheGirlOnFire said:

What's your feeling on this ?

How big is your church on this ?

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I don't think mandatory tithing is biblical but I won't get on anyone's case for tithing. I have a paypal account if anyone needs it.

But, seriously, if nobody feels like sending tithes in my direction, because there's no reason that some random weird guy who doesn't need it should be sent tithes, I don't see why I should be expected to send tithes to some other weird guys who don't need it. And if there's anyone who needs money or food or what have you, I don't understand why I need a church to act on my behalf. If a church can reach further than I can, then may as well just call it a service, or a non-profit organization (are they non-profit organizations really?), and not use "tithe" to confuse things with an obligation given to us by God.

My last church talked way too much about tithing. They didn't require us to, and they left the option up to us but it was enough to make one wonder about their priorities.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with a community of Christians pitching in to build a place of worship, etc., but call it what it is instead of using God to pressure people. I've bumped into a few groups that operate that way, and they're pretty adamant against tithing.

Nanopants said:

I don't think mandatory tithing is biblical but I won't get on anyone's case for tithing. I have a paypal account if anyone needs it.

But, seriously, if nobody feels like sending tithes in my direction, because there's no reason that some random weird guy who doesn't need it should be sent tithes, I don't see why I should be expected to send tithes to some other weird guys who don't need it. And if there's anyone who needs money or food or what have you, I don't understand why I need a church to act on my behalf. If a church can reach further than I can, then may as well just call it a service, or a non-profit organization (are they non-profit organizations really?), and not use "tithe" to confuse things with an obligation given to us by God.

My last church talked way too much about tithing. They didn't require us to, and they left the option up to us but it was enough to make one wonder about their priorities.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with a community of Christians pitching in to build a place of worship, etc., but call it what it is instead of using God to pressure people. I've bumped into a few groups that operate that way, and they're pretty adamant against tithing.

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With all due respect, what you wrote there makes absolutely no sense. At my church, I work as director of several ministries that work with the homeless and underprivileged. In our congregation, 50% of all donations go to our ministries; 25% to missionary programs overseas, and 25% to our local Storehouse program. Our church generates around $40,000 a week in donations, mostly through tithing. There is nothing mandatory, but it is expected that you donate. Why? First, because the Bible directs us to share our proportion of wealth with our fellow Christians. Second, because programs are not free. When we pay for repairs to a car so someone with little disposable income can get to work, where do you think that money comes from? When we open up our Community Cupboard and provide free meals to hundreds of homeless people, where do you think that food comes from? When a person without health insurance needs mental health counseling, or braces for their kids, or cannot afford a prescription, who pays for those things? Sorry, Nanopants, but you absolutely no idea how a church operates. It's easy to sit back and throw jabs at churches and money, insinuating that they are not even deserving of non-profit status. But, from my experience, those types of comments come from people who's sole contribution to their fellow Christians is posting on an electronic message board. Have you ever worked in an outreach program? Ever been asked to come up with a budget for an organization, pay utility bills and salaries for people, or generally plan a care based program? Without an idea as to tithing, how should I allocate resources for the monthly rent support program we have? How about planning long term care programs to the elderly? Did you know that 50% of all social services in the U.S. are provided to underprivileged people by American Christian Churches? How about the the 41.5 Billion dollars given out by U.S. churches to global aid programs? I do not know the statistics form other countries and their believers, but I would assume they are similar. Where do you think that money comes from?

As for no Biblical basis for tithing, I completely disagree with you. The Old Testament was more specific about the percentages of wealth given, but the references are numerous. I would direct you to Genesis 14:18, Genesis 14:20, Genesis 28:22, Leviticus 27:30, II Kings 4:8-10, and Malachi 3:10, as a starter. As for the New Testament, I would first ask you to take a look at Matthew 5:17, where Christ commanded that he was not send to destroy the laws of Abraham, but fulfill them. In that context, read Acts 5:1, and the establishment of giving in the new church, then Acts 11:29-30, Philippians 4:17, and the proclamation of I Corinthians 16:1-2.

Legal_Eagle said:

With all due respect, what you wrote there makes absolutely no sense. At my church, I work as director of several ministries that work with the homeless and underprivileged. In our congregation, 50% of all donations go to our ministries; 25% to missionary programs overseas, and 25% to our local Storehouse program. Our church generates around $40,000 a week in donations, mostly through tithing. There is nothing mandatory, but it is expected that you donate. Why? First, because the Bible directs us to share our proportion of wealth with our fellow Christians. Second, because programs are not free. When we pay for repairs to a car so someone with little disposable income can get to work, where do you think that money comes from? When we open up our Community Cupboard and provide free meals to hundreds of homeless people, where do you think that food comes from? When a person without health insurance needs mental health counseling, or braces for their kids, or cannot afford a prescription, who pays for those things? Sorry, Nanopants, but you absolutely no idea how a church operates. It's easy to sit back and throw jabs at churches and money, insinuating that they are not even deserving of non-profit status. But, from my experience, those types of comments come from people who's sole contribution to their fellow Christians is posting on an electronic message board. Have you ever worked in an outreach program? Ever been asked to come up with a budget for an organization, pay utility bills and salaries for people, or generally plan a care based program? Without an idea as to tithing, how should I allocate resources for the monthly rent support program we have? How about planning long term care programs to the elderly? Did you know that 50% of all social services in the U.S. are provided to underprivileged people by American Christian Churches? How about the the 41.5 Billion dollars given out by U.S. churches to global aid programs? I do not know the statistics form other countries and their believers, but I would assume they are similar. Where do you think that money comes from?

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Well it makes pretty good sense to me, and you will never know what contributions I have made. I think I'll just sit back and observe every single false judgment you feel so inclined to make.

I don't need to insinuate anything. Fact is there are homeless people on the streets, here, at home, and I frequently hear the right complain about every single cent that the government spends to help them. With all those billions supposedly given, why is this the case?

As for no Biblical basis for tithing, I completely disagree with you. The Old Testament was more specific about the percentages of wealth given, but the references are numerous. I would direct you to Genesis 14:18, Genesis 14:20, Genesis 28:22, Leviticus 27:30, II Kings 4:8-10, and Malachi 3:10, as a starter. As for the New Testament, I would first ask you to take a look at Matthew 5:17, where Christ commanded that he was not send to destroy the laws of Abraham, but fulfill them. In that context, read Acts 5:1, and the establishment of giving in the new church, then Acts 11:29-30, Philippians 4:17, and the proclamation of I Corinthians 16:1-2.

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I've read every verse in scripture. Are you aware of the fall from grace Paul spoke of in Galatians for a return to the bondage of the law? I take that seriously.

As far as "tithe" or "tenth" is concerned, the first one recorded was not made out of obligation, and that's why I said that mandatory tithing is not biblical. Beyond that, searching for another ethical justification has been problematic.

Nanopants said:

Well it makes pretty good sense to me, and you will never know what contributions I have made. I think I'll just sit back and observe every single false judgment you feel so inclined to make.

I don't need to insinuate anything. Fact is there are homeless people on the streets, here, at home, and I frequently hear the right complain about every single cent that the government spends to help them. With all those billions supposedly given, why is this the case?

I've read every verse in scripture. Are you aware of the fall from grace Paul spoke of in Galatians for a return to the bondage of the law? I take that seriously.

As far as "tithe" or "tenth" is concerned, the first one recorded was not made out of obligation, and that's why I said that mandatory tithing is not biblical. Beyond that, searching for another ethical justification has been problematic.

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So you read the release from the bondage of the judgement of the law, to imply there are no laws? I think you may want to rethink that one, because by that logic every directive about living one's life in a Godly manner in the Old and New Testament becomes meaningless. Second, what does your hatred of the "right" side of a political party have to do with anything posted here? I never mentioned politics. I gave you statistics about giving and churches, to which you spout off about politics. Fact is Nano, while there may be homeless where you live, there are far less (and they are far better off) due to the social outreach programs of churches. Third, I'm glad your dislike of giving to churches makes good sense to you. I posed some real world questions to you.. you know, the stuff that requires more than just an opinion shot from the hip. Your response is to sit back and observe. Fine, that's your prerogative. It just doesn't say much about the conviction or credibility of what you say. You also never really replied to any of the verses I quoted that reference an obligation of a Godly person to contribute to the welfare of their congregation.

Legal_Eagle said:

So you read the release from the bondage of the judgement of the law, to imply there are no laws? I think you may want to rethink that one, because by that logic every directive about living one's life in a Godly manner in the Old and New Testament becomes meaningless.

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Did you know that one of the names of God is literally "YHWH our righteousness?" Do you understand why that is? If not I would suggest that you rethink your position on the law's role in that.

Second, what does your hatred of the "right" side of a political party have to do with anything posted here? I never mentioned politics. I gave you statistics about giving and churches, to which you spout off about politics. Fact is Nano, while there may be homeless where you live, there are far less (and they are far better off) due to the social outreach programs of churches. Third, I'm glad your dislike of giving to churches makes good sense to you. I posed some real world questions to you.. you know, the stuff that requires more than just an opinion shot from the hip. Your response is to sit back and observe. Fine, that's your prerogative.

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Yeah, see, that part about me hating the right, and my dislike of giving to churches was completely made up. I'm not going to entertain fiction.

It just doesn't say much about the conviction or credibility of what you say. You also never really replied to any of the verses I quoted that reference an obligation of a Godly person to contribute to the welfare of their congregation.

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That also isn't true. I responded with scripture. I already talked about Christians contributing to their communities.

I like the churches where they have a box in the corner and that's it.
Passing something around isn't something I personally like.
I do feel I should give 10% since it's not my money. Although, sometimes it goes to other churches in different states, or to other ministries.
Last year the pastor asked if we could tithe a bit extra.. He never really mentions tithing or has requests like that.
He did it in a proper way and so I tithed three months worth.. Needless to say I made three months of sales in a month, broke a few records, and am still riding on that wave of better than average sales.

That's interesting. I think I'll mention that while I do not think mandatory tithing is biblical, it does teach "give and it will be given to you" and that the blessing of Abraham ("I will bless those who bless you") is available to the Gentiles.

Nanopants said:

That's interesting. I think I'll mention that while I do not think mandatory tithing is biblical, it does teach "give and it will be given to you" and that the blessing of Abraham ("I will bless those who bless you") is available to the Gentiles.

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In the book of Acts they had everything in common.

I just see that the money given to me is a gift.
I don't work for anybody, every order comes from nowhere in particular.
So I am generous with my money but try to spend it wisely (My grandfather was a Jewish banker so it influenced me I suppose).
In the end I've not had any money concerns for a while, not that I make a lot but what I get works for me.
Got other problems of course (when will I finish college? Friends? What like one here and one 5,000 miles away?) but for now I'm thankful for what works.

I give what I can, when I can, but the bottom line is I think giving is important. The past five years I've given more to organizations like IJM and World Vision than my church. My church passes around the offering but it's not overly-emphasized.

Nanopants said:

Did you know that one of the names of God is literally "YHWH our righteousness?" Do you understand why that is? If not I would suggest that you rethink your position on the law's role in that.

Yeah, see, that part about me hating the right, and my dislike of giving to churches was completely made up. I'm not going to entertain fiction.

That also isn't true. I responded with scripture. I already talked about Christians contributing to their communities.

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Oh Nanopants. They should call you deflection pants, as you are the master of avoiding the question. I never said that people should be judged by the law. However, you seem to have this blasé notion that Christ gave you the right to do whatever you want and the rules God proscribed mean nothing. I see Christianity in a different light; a teaching on a way to interact with and embrace this world. I get that faith is not works based, and to that end, no amount of specific works or donations garner blessing or salvation. However, as we become more Christ like, we are expected to emulate his view for us in the world. I showed you countless examples in scripture where people are called to give portions of their gifts and wealth to the church and their fellow man. The church is the organized formation of the worship of God. Arguing whether or not there should be organized religion is a topic for another thread. However, the New Testament church, especially as shown in Acts, has an organizational structure at it's core. The followers of that church were called upon to donate, in order to make that organization function. The early church used those donations to feed the needy in their flock, as well as fund the Apostles in the missions. Today, the functions of many churches has not changed in that regard. Again, I ask, do you question that Christians are called to donate at all, or that churches are asked to serve functions (that require money) to their community? Whether you donate to a specific church or use a non-profit is not the point I was trying to make. Neither is the specific percentage of your income the issue for me. However, the pretty explicit gists of the New Testament are salvation, supplication to God, and loving your fellow man. As I said before, missions both abroad and at home require actual money to run volunteer programs. I supplied you statistics showing what churches do to relieve the suffering of the disadvantaged in this country. I also explained that planning outreach programs requires budgets and standards for of giving. You complain about right wing politicians, blather on about having the right answer nothing, while saying you responded. What again is your response to any of this? I am still awaiting more that dancing around the issue and conjecture. Nano, I'm done trying to engage you. I would venture to ask what you do for a living, or what gives you such insight into the inner workings of nonprofits, to conclude they are not really non-profits. You seem somewhat bitter and aloof, when it comes to acknowledging how religious organizations run and their contribution to alleviating the suffering of the people in this world. As I also said before, this attitude is generally indicative of people who are full of opinion and short on practical knowledge or action. You say that you are a Christian on your profile. What exactly do you believe that compels you to do, in as much as you supplicate your life and physical possessions to God, and are called on to "serve" your fellow man?

I tithe. I think it is beneficial. If we want to have pastors or a church building, then tithe is necessary. That said, I try to avoid tithing to churches that are dead. I'd rather give the money to a church that will use it wisely, so that is what I often aim to do. I like having government; I like having garbage pick-up; I like having mail delivery workers, so I help to pay for them all. I also like having people around me who work for God full-time, so I'm okay with helping to pay for them too.

I was raised from teenager onward in a church that tithed. They weren't prosperity preachers, but they did say "Some people think they can't afford to tithe. Really, they can't afford not to. A blessed 90% is so much better than a cursed 100%."

Ceta_cea said:

In my church tithing is something that is talked about but everyone can decide whether he wants to do it or not. Our pastor is explaining what tithing means according to God word, but everyone is responsible only to himself and God. We have a basket that goes around at the end of the services. The money that is collected will be used for the church (building, materials for sunday school, charity ect.).

I can only say how tithing works for me: since I give my 10% I never had financial problems. There where times where I didn't know if my wage would be enough to live on but God always helped me through. When I was younger at the beginning of my apprenticeship, I didn't take tithing seriously and often felt that there was no blessing on how I spent my money.

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Great post. Supplicating your financial problems to God is part of what tithing is all about. It is hard to give an amount when you cannot see how your bills will be paid. We have to trust that God will provide, and that is no small task. I commend you for your faith!

Legal_Eagle said:

Oh Nanopants. They should call you deflection pants, as you are the master of avoiding the question. I never said that people should be judged by the law. However, you seem to have this blasé notion that Christ gave you the right to do whatever you want and the rules God proscribed mean nothing.

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I am the captain of my own ship. Obligation is an important subject, theologically: we were bought at a price and we are not to be the slaves of men, and if we so choose, even if it costs us our lives. When Christians are punished unjustly then these things are also done to the Son in them. They don't deliver us up to councils and synagogues for no reason, and that this is now possible in the "church" speaks volumes about the condition of the religion.

I see Christianity in a different light; a teaching on a way to interact with and embrace this world.

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You know what scripture says about the love of the world.

I get that faith is not works based, and to that end, no amount of specific works or donations garner blessing or salvation. However, as we become more Christ like, we are expected to emulate his view for us in the world.

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Ok.

I showed you countless examples in scripture where people are called to give portions of their gifts and wealth to the church and their fellow man. The church is the organized formation of the worship of God. Arguing whether or not there should be organized religion is a topic for another thread. However, the New Testament church, especially as shown in Acts, has an organizational structure at it's core.

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Acts 15:

And tithe isn't among them.

The followers of that church were called upon to donate, in order to make that organization function. The early church used those donations to feed the needy in their flock, as well as fund the Apostles in the missions. Today, the functions of many churches has not changed in that regard. Again, I ask, do you question that Christians are called to donate at all, or that churches are asked to serve functions (that require money) to their community? Whether you donate to a specific church or use a non-profit is not the point I was trying to make. Neither is the specific percentage of your income the issue for me. However, the pretty explicit gists of the New Testament are salvation, supplication to God, and loving your fellow man. As I said before, missions both abroad and at home require actual money to run volunteer programs. I supplied you statistics showing what churches do to relieve the suffering of the disadvantaged in this country. I also explained that planning outreach programs requires budgets and standards for of giving. You complain about right wing politicians, blather on about having the right answer nothing, while saying you responded. What again is your response to any of this? I am still awaiting more that dancing around the issue and conjecture. Nano, I'm done trying to engage you. I would venture to ask what you do for a living, or what gives you such insight into the inner workings of nonprofits, to conclude they are not really non-profits. You seem somewhat bitter and aloof, when it comes to acknowledging how religious organizations run and their contribution to alleviating the suffering of the people in this world. As I also said before, this attitude is generally indicative of people who are full of opinion and short on practical knowledge or action. You say that you are a Christian on your profile. What exactly do you believe that compels you to do, in as much as you supplicate your life and physical possessions to God, and are called on to "serve" your fellow man?

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Considering that I expressed my approval of the right to give, it would seem that the subjects of who is required to give and who is entitled to receive is a sensitive subject.

I merely conclude this..
God gave me a job and work.
So that 10% is his and not mine. And so I'll give it with good intentions, and without clinging onto it.

That sounds noble, but, technically, it's all His along with everything else (Ps 24:1), but, "..inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these, my brethren, you did it to me" (Mat 25:40).