Time.....What is it? Where did it come from? How is it possible we are even here?

MandM · Sep 28, 2007

Okay all you philosophers out there, this thread is about the topic of time.

More specifically, it is about the nature of time.

What is time?

Where did time come from?

More importantly, how can we even explain how we got to this point in time.

Let me elaborate.

If time moves in a linear fashion, then wouldn't an infinite amount of time have had to have passed in order for us to be here today?

So how are we here?

Okay, you may say that time moves in a circular fashion. Well, wouldn't an infinite amount of cycles have had to have passed in order to reach this present cycle?

Or did time have a beginning?

MorkandMindy · Sep 28, 2007

What is Time?

In our experience time is change.

Change is the ticking of the clock, the progression of a light beam, the flow of water.

Change is our creator, Change is our destroyer

The Hindus accept this cycle; their trinity contains the creator, the sustainer, and the destroyer.

In a Minkowski space, there is a timelike dimension and motion can be expressed using three macroscopic spacelike dimensions and a timelike dimension, but in our common experience travelling well below the speed of light, measures in space and time appear to be unconnected.

So why does time go only one way? At the origin of the universe it very possibly went an entirely different way - not backwards either - but now for us big things it can only be perceived this way because entropy and therefore our memories run this way.

MorkandMindy · Sep 28, 2007

MandM said:
Where did time come from?

More importantly, how can we even explain how we got to this point in time.

Let me elaborate.

If time moves in a linear fashion, then wouldn't an infinite amount of time have had to have passed in order for us to be here today?

There may be many universes but many without such useful things as time or matter.

How can we explain how we got to this point in space, if space is infinite? Did we have to travel a long way?

I am always amazed that I was born on this planet rather than some other

The observable universe has an awful lot of, but not an infinite amount of space, and the same applies to time.

We got here by spending 13 700 000 000 years as just plain atoms, a lot of it with them combined into molecules or whatever, and most atoms don't seem to age much, so it really wasn't a long time to them.

'We' didn't actually exist until we were born, so we as an assembly exist for a very limited duration much as we exist over a very limited space dimension.

MorkandMindy · Sep 28, 2007

MandM said:
Okay all you philosophers out there, this thread is about the topic of time.
...
Okay, you may say that time moves in a circular fashion. Well, wouldn't an infinite amount of cycles have had to have passed in order to reach this present cycle?

Or did time have a beginning?

Is your name after the chocolate M&Ms?

If time were circular with identical cycles then we are in all of

them, and they would really all be the same cycle, only things

outside these cycles could be different...

so as regards our experience the cycles would have to be non

identical in which case they aren't really cycles...

everyday experience includes cyclic change: days, weeks, seasons, and

non-cyclic items as well.

Here's a lovely ancient description including both cyclic and non-cyclic aspects of change, or time:

Ecclesiastes

chapter 3

1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:

2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,

5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,

6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,

7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,

8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

The Nihilist · Sep 28, 2007

I've had some contact with the philosophy of time, and what I know is that basically no one has any idea at all what's going on with time.

DailyBlessings · Sep 28, 2007

RecoveringPhilosopher said:
I've had some contact with the philosophy of time, and what I know is that basically no one has any idea at all what's going on with time.

This is my general impression. I've had a lot of people try to explain time to me, all convinced that they were making far more sense than they actually were. But that doesn't seem to stop us from trying to use the ill-defined concept of time in other philosophical debates...

The Nihilist · Sep 28, 2007

DailyBlessings said:
This is my general impression. I've had a lot of people try to explain time to me, all convinced that they were making far more sense than they actually were. But that doesn't seem to stop us from trying to use the ill-defined concept of time in other philosophical debates...

Just so we're clear, there's no philosophical consensus on the nature of time. I mean, there's several different models, but they're all flawed.
At the same time, though, we do have a sort of practical understanding, so I'm not that concerned about time entering other areas of philosophy.

DailyBlessings · Sep 28, 2007

RecoveringPhilosopher said:
Just so we're clear, there's no philosophical consensus on the nature of time. I mean, there's several different models, but they're all flawed.
At the same time, though, we do have a sort of practical understanding, so I'm not that concerned about time entering other areas of philosophy.

I am. I think its rather reckless, and pointless, to try and prove a point using a term that is only understood as a general perception, and that both poorly and inconsistently. Note for instance the endless bickering over whether God can exist "outside" of time.

daniel777 · Sep 28, 2007

change is nothing. if change (from our perspective) is time, how did time begin. can time exist without a beginning. if there is a beginning what was there to initially 'change'....God is the force behind change, and the present is where time and eternity intersect.

of course, it's all conjecture. and pretty useless, i'de have to agree.

the question we should be asking is: does time have no beginning. if it has no beginning, how can it be time. how could one change progress to the effect if cause and effect are separated by an infinite amount of time?

The Nihilist · Sep 29, 2007

DailyBlessings said:
I am. I think its rather reckless, and pointless, to try and prove a point using a term that is only understood as a general perception, and that both poorly and inconsistently. Note for instance the endless bickering over whether God can exist "outside" of time.

Oh, right. That's a silly argument, and I thought so even when I was a Christian.

In my opinion, Kant gives the most plausible account of time, that being that it is an order imposed on the outside world as a function of our cognitive processes. I think. It's been a while.

R3quiem · Sep 29, 2007

MandM said:
Okay all you philosophers out there, this thread is about the topic of time.

More specifically, it is about the nature of time.

What is time?

Where did time come from?

More importantly, how can we even explain how we got to this point in time.

Let me elaborate.

If time moves in a linear fashion, then wouldn't an infinite amount of time have had to have passed in order for us to be here today?

So how are we here?

Okay, you may say that time moves in a circular fashion. Well, wouldn't an infinite amount of cycles have had to have passed in order to reach this present cycle?

Or did time have a beginning?

Time is linked to Space- it's basically a physical property. Einstein proved this with his famous theory of relativity, which has been reinforced theoretically and physically through countless experiments.

Time is linear, but not absolute. Things can and do travel at different rates through time.

If the Big Bang theory is correct, and all space did originate from this moment, then time itself also originated because it is linked with space. This would mean time, at least in our universe, had a beginning. If you get into what happened "before" the Bang, if such a concept even exists, it's currently unanswerable.

MorkandMindy · Sep 29, 2007

R3quiem said:
If the Big Bang theory is correct, and all space did originate from this moment, then time itself also originated because it is linked with space. This would mean time, at least in our universe, had a beginning. If you get into what happened "before" the Bang, if such a concept even exists, it's currently unanswerable.

You could define history as information in which case no time exists before a point where the universe has an entropy of zero. That means the start of the inflation is the start of time.

quatona · Sep 29, 2007

Time is a human concept.

DailyBlessings · Sep 29, 2007

quatona said:
Time is a human concept.

So a chimpanzee, for instance, has no notion of it?

quatona · Sep 30, 2007

DailyBlessings said:
So a chimpanzee, for instance, has no notion of it?

Ask him.

DailyBlessings · Sep 30, 2007

quatona said:
Ask him.

It's clear you haven't done so, was my point.

quatona · Sep 30, 2007

DailyBlessings said:
It's clear you haven't done so, was my point.

Yes - stating the obvious. Chimpanees don´t talk, so they don´t communicate their abstractions.
Thus, maybe chimpanees, centipedes, amoebas and coliflowers do hold concepts "time", but we don´t know that they do, and we don´t know that - if they do - their concepts have anything to do with the human concept.
So, whenever I am talking about time, I am talking about the human concept time.
If you want to talk about the chimpanees´, the centipedes´, the amoebas´or the coliflowers´ concepts, I feel unable to participate.

Time.....What is it? Where did it come from? How is it possible we are even here?

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