Thoughts on Jesus' return?!

Catherineanne · Sep 27, 2016

LordDuncanBurneWilke said:
Really? I am in no rush. Life's pretty good.

Congratulations. Meanwhile, have you ever considered acquiring a shade more empathy?

Just a thought.

Catherineanne · Sep 27, 2016

Ladyghosthunter said:
I have PTSD and have been put through Hell all of my life. It's time for me to leave.

Catherineanne · Sep 27, 2016

redleghunter said:
Lady G, I just completed a prayer for you.

My hope and prayer is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ brings you times of refreshing and His Grace and Peace on you.

I have not experienced your trials. Best I can muster is the day I was informed my 10 year old son had cancer. A terrible day that lasted three years and watching what he endured. To make matters worse I was also diagnosed with cancer a year into his treatments. Again not even close to what you are enduring.

We are not in competition with one another; that is not how it works. Suffering is not a competition but a shared experience; none of us is immune from it.

I have no idea how you coped with your son's diagnosis, or your own cancer.

I learned to look at the glory of Christ seated at the Right Hand of the Father. Reminded of what St Paul wrote to the Roman church :

Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

God Bless.

Great post.

Lord have mercy.

LordDuncanBurneWilke · Sep 27, 2016

Serving Zion said:
Hello there Duncan, wow I love this question! Thanks!! I wrote all this response this morning, then took some time to see it with fresh eyes, by that time you'd already got the answers anyway - still, I think this is worth posting, there is details here that might be useful to someone.

What we find as we look into this issue (the failure of Christianity to yet achieve it's full objective) is that Jesus did not fail, nor did His disciples fail, but those taking His name for vain purposes, (self-serving Christians and the world at large), has failed to repent and fully embrace Christianity to the extent that can overcome evil.

In the scriptures of The New Testament, we see evidence that within the churches were people rising to leadership and teaching positions, that were doing so for selfish reasons. In other words, their preaching was not because their heart was fully in service to God, but because they enjoyed the recognition/benefits of being esteemed as an authority in the church, and they found that they had some talent that made them particularly successful to that end. We observe this even in the modern days.

For example: 2 Peter 2:1-3, Jude 1:1-25, Acts 20:29.

Jesus taught about this too (Luke 19:14, Matthew 13:24-30).

In St. Paul's writings, he frequently addresses them "to the holy ones in the congregation" - explicitly stating that not all of the congregation can be addressed as holy ones. Even in the church today, we see that congregations contain mixtures of people holy and unholy, .. the ratios vary of course, but it is my firm commitment to say that this has observably lessened over the recent years. The cause is easily attributed to media influences - a noticeable absence of Holy Spirit in public Television and Music, has groomed social attitudes to be more inclined toward sexual immorality, more obsessed with consumerism, more interested in gadgets and fun, to the detriment of our relationships with God and the people around us. These media influences have taken the primary place in our lives, so God has been relegated to mealtime prayers and an hour on Sunday. Subsequently, there has been a gradual lessening of love, respect, compassion, ethics in society, because of our increasing tendency to self-gratification (Matthew 24:12).

So, the earth as a collective entity, still has not overcome the enemy, and the enemy is advancing upon it. The enemy is sin. The enemy is purely and deeply evil, it's heart ultimately desires destruction and death. It creeps into our lives with cunning - appearing at first to be harmless and good, gradually taking hold of us until we are outright rejecting and opposing righteousness, also rejecting and opposing The Holy Spirit of Truth.

Our enemy has strength against us because of our selfish ambitions. We all have weaknesses, that is true; we are all human, and humans have common, natural desires (comforts/pleasures, ego etc - 1 Corinthians 10:13). The particular nature of the people around us, the experiences we have, the way we learn to cope with them, the way others demonstrate survival to us - life just causes us to be more or less inclined to those desires in our own unique way. The enemy, being a personal enemy to us, observes and learns of our weaknesses so that it might have mastery over us for it's own purposes (Genesis 4:6-7).

Yet the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ states that if we surrender our life for Jesus' sake, we will receive life abundantly; and conversely, the one who desires to keep his life for himself, will ultimately lose it. Furthermore, we are obligated - not merely asked - to pick up our own cross and follow Jesus. This is an ultimatum: will we stand up for the truth and for Jesus' vindication; or will we allow the enemy to prevail against us and to use us as an instrument of destruction in His name? The gospel is more than an evangelical sales pitch.

To be a successful ambassador for Christ, we must be righteous. We must be able to stand against all accusations without blame, so that God will be pleased to defend us (Proverbs 18:10). We don't have righteousness of our own accord, because our past has sin. Yet, because Jesus has purchased us from sin with His own blood (1 Corinthians 7:23), the burden of that past belongs to Him, and we are graciously gifted with a good conscience (2 Corinthians 5:17). But, as Hebrews 10:26-29 explains, there no longer remains any sacrifice for sins after that. We must repent perfectly for the rest of our days, in order to maintain our confidence of righteous standing. Our righteousness does not come from being able to demonstrate to our fellow man that we comply with a law, rather, we know in our own conscience that God is pleased with the way we are living (Romans 3:28-30).

Righteousness is paramount, because it is power to condemn the sinner (Matthew 5:20, Isaiah 54:17).

The true disciples who first carried the gospel, certainly understood this well (it is visible in their writings). Yet they also saw that the flesh is weak, and the most appealing influence within the congregations was of a sinful persuasion. They saw that the enemy was continuing it's assault upon The Kingdom of God. St. Paul writes in 2 Thessalonians 2 "The day of The Father will not come until the great apostasy comes first". And so, we do see signs of this in the present age: churches have compromised the standards of holiness, in order that they make it a welcoming place for sinners, who fill their seats and pay the bills.

You asked "why is it taking so long for Jesus to return?". This is it, really. God needs us to rise up and speak these truths on His behalf, but we have largely become impotent, lukewarm. Also, the lost sheep of Israel are still lost. The Kingdom of God can only be complete, and their faith can only have full power, when they accept that Jesus is Messiah. They cannot easily see Messiah in Christianity when all they can see is that Christians are slaves to sin, calling "holy", things that are not holy, and saying that God's law is not relevant (because they are lawless).

.. and briefly about the word "generation" - it most generally describes the lifespan of an offspring that comes and goes. It doesn't necessarily mean a fixed period of years. When you read Matthew 24:34, also read Mark 8:38, and Matthew 17:17. The context that Jesus is using the term "generation", seems to describe the period of earth's history after the fall and before the restoration, the period during which sin reigns (Genesis 3:15 until Revelation 21:3-4).

Very illuminating. Thank you! I will have to reply further once I have time to dig into this response!

LordDuncanBurneWilke · Sep 27, 2016

Catherineanne said:
Congratulations. Meanwhile, have you ever considered acquiring a shade more empathy?

Just a thought.

I was unaware of the person's problems when I posted that.

Catherineanne · Sep 27, 2016

LordDuncanBurneWilke said:
I was unaware of the person's problems when I posted that.

And now?

LordDuncanBurneWilke · Sep 27, 2016

Catherineanne said:
And now?

I replied to her and expressed my sympathy in regards to her problems and wished her well in the future.

redleghunter · Sep 27, 2016

Catherineanne said:
We are not in competition with one another; that is not how it works. Suffering is not a competition but a shared experience; none of us is immune from it.

I understand your reaction. However, it was not my intent to make this thread dueling banjos or the "Four Yorkshire men."

ViaCrucis · Sep 27, 2016

LordDuncanBurneWilke said:
Hey all.

What do you think about the return of Jesus?

What the Creed says, "He will come again to judge the quick and the dead".

Why is it taking so long?

I'm not sure that it is. Seemingly part of the occasion for the penning of 2 Peter involved the fact that some were wondering this same thing--the author states that God isn't slow, and that time with God isn't the same as time with us. In other words, it's really not up to us to decide such matters.

I can't help but notice as I read the NT that it seems like it should have happened in that setting. Even old Paul seemed sure his return was imminent.

They probably did think it would be soon, but that's been true of every generation since. Which is why there are always some nutters out there trying to make predictions about the end of the world, they ignore the fact that Jesus Himself said that no one knows when except God the Father.

Plus there is that verse about the current generation not passing before his return.

I'd argue that is frequently misunderstood. Quite often people think the Olivet Discourse is primarily about the "end times", but the chief point of the Discourse (in Mark, Luke, and Matthew) is the destruction of the Temple which took place in the year 70. Jesus does talk about the end and His coming in the Discourse, but that isn't the occasion for His statement about "this generation".

The chapters in which the Discourse is mentioned occurs in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13. Jesus is talking about signs which point to the destruction of Jerusalem, the "sign of the Son of Man" is often taken to refer to the Parousia or Second Coming, but it most likely a reference to Daniel's vision of the Son of Man being taken on a cloud before the Ancient of Days to receive all authority and dominion. So when Jesus says "this generation" He means the current generation, and the things they will witness are those things which will all happen within a few decades. It's not that "this generation" will see the return of Christ coming in glory to judge, or the conclusion of history, but that they would see the events described in the Discourse unfold leading up to the Roman siege on Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple.

Honestly it's a big hurdle, especially with all the end time nuts making endless predictions that never come to pass.

Curious what some of the good Christians in this sub-forum think?

Thanks!

-CryptoLutheran

LordDuncanBurneWilke · Sep 27, 2016

Thanks VC. Good info. Very helpful!

2PhiloVoid · Sep 29, 2016

LordDuncanBurneWilke said:
Hey all.

What do you think about the return of Jesus? Why is it taking so long? I can't help but notice as I read the NT that it seems like it should have happened in that setting. Even old Paul seemed sure his return was imminent. Plus there is that verse about the current generation not passing before his return. Honestly it's a big hurdle, especially with all the end time nuts making endless predictions that never come to pass.

Curious what some of the good Christians in this sub-forum think?

Thanks!

I think that: 1) 1st century Christians were "feeling" their way through trying to understand the meaning of what Jesus said about impending eschatological events, 2) I think 21st century Christians are also "feeling" their way through, but they get a bit carried away with their expectations and interpretations.

On the statement Jesus said about "this generation shall by no means pass away," my understanding is that He was referring mainly to the end of the 2nd Temple era in Israel, which did come to an end within the lifetime of those who heard Jesus say that it would come to an end within their lifetime.

Job8 · Sep 29, 2016

LordDuncanBurneWilke said:
Even old Paul seemed sure his return was imminent.

Yes, the coming of Christ FOR His saints at the Rapture was always imminent, and is still imminent. However the Second Coming of Christ would only be after the Great Tribulation. Why has Christ not returned already? The answer is found in 2 Peter 3:3-9 (but read the whole chapter).

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Paul Yohannan · Sep 30, 2016

redleghunter said:
Good afternoon (at least where I am ).

Yes you are correct the imminent return of Messiah is all throughout the NT. To be thorough, I would extend that to the OT (TaNaKh) as well.

Setting is important but not the entire picture. We should overlay the imminent return of the King with the revelation God is patient and longsuffering that no one should perish:

2 Peter 3: New King James Version (NKJV)

3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”

5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Indeed so. The idea of atemporality is important; God is entirely beyond time, which is a creature (otherwise, God would be a mere demiurge and Chronos of the Greek pantheon the real deity; what is more, in a sense, without wishing to suggest "soul sleep", a particular judgement awaits us at the end of this life, and in respect of that as well as the dread day of judgement of which only the Father knows the exact time, we should remain in continual readiness.

Anguspure · Sep 30, 2016

LordDuncanBurneWilke said:
Hey all.

What do you think about the return of Jesus? Why is it taking so long? I can't help but notice as I read the NT that it seems like it should have happened in that setting. Even old Paul seemed sure his return was imminent. Plus there is that verse about the current generation not passing before his return. Honestly it's a big hurdle, especially with all the end time nuts making endless predictions that never come to pass.

Curious what some of the good Christians in this sub-forum think?

Thanks!

It is an interesting thought that the end of the world happens for everyone one of us at the point of death.
In that respect it might be considered that Christ returns for every beleiver at this point. The next thing a beleiver knows after death is that they are resurrected to life in the new kingdom and the next thing an unbeliver knows is a resurection to judgement.

So with this in mind how long has it really been? Really it has only been one lifetime (for each one of us).

The bible doesn't talk about a time frame for Christ's return as such but it does refer to a number of people. So the question is how long will it take before God is satisfied that everybody who will choose salvation has done so?

Widlast · Sep 30, 2016

Once the Tribulation get under way we'll have a good idea when He'll return.
Thinks are getting more than a bit ugly around the world and world-wide apostasy is in process, so by my estimations
it won't be too long.

Just_a_Joe · Sep 30, 2016

Ladyghosthunter said:
I have PTSD and have been put through Hell all of my life. It's time for me to leave.

Oh no. Sorry to hear that. How are you today?

Just_a_Joe · Sep 30, 2016

"Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”… But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:3-4, 8-9).

Yours is not a new question. The answer from 2 Peter is pretty weak, I think.

1) God's idea of "soon" is different from human? But then Jesus was giving the impression his second coming was very, very imminent in human terms. He never mentioned this God's timeline of a few thousands years give or take from 2 Peter.

2) Giving people more time to repent is not achieved by delaying to come back. Because people are born daily, in growing numbers. So each day of delay means many more new people who need much more combined time. Geometrical progression. If reproduction was frozen, and then each human's lifespan increased, that indeed would have been giving more time. Otherwise not.

Hallstone · Sep 30, 2016

LordDuncanBurneWilke said:
Hey all.

What do you think about the return of Jesus? Why is it taking so long? I can't help but notice as I read the NT that it seems like it should have happened in that setting. Even old Paul seemed sure his return was imminent. Plus there is that verse about the current generation not passing before his return. Honestly it's a big hurdle, especially with all the end time nuts making endless predictions that never come to pass.

Curious what some of the good Christians in this sub-forum think?

Thanks!

Luke 21:24 And they (Zionists that rejected their own Christ) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

When is the times of the Gentiles fulfilled?

Dan 8:23 "In the latter period of their rule([sovereignty] of the Old Kingdoms),
When the transgressors(Rebels, Zionists that reject Christ) have run(finished) their course, (Returned to Israel and rebuild the Temple)
A king(The Antichrist) will arise,
Insolent and skilled in intrigue.
Dan 8:24 "His power will be mighty, but not by his own power,
And he will destroy to an extraordinary degree
And prosper and perform his will;
He will destroy mighty men and the holy people(Saints).

How will he (The Antichrist) gain control of the whole world?

Dan 8:25 "And through his shrewdness
He will cause deceit to succeed by his influence ([Satanic power] sorcery);
And he will magnify himself in his heart,
And he will destroy many while they are at ease. (Uses Nuclear Weaponry)
He will even oppose the Prince of princes, (Gathers all his power to fight Christ's Coming)
But he will be broken without human agency. (Christ Jesus returns and destroys him and his world system).

So it seems that as soon as the Zionists are able to secure Jerusalem as the 'Official' or 'Legal' Capital of Israel, and they are able somehow to rebuild the temple or some facsimile, then the season of the end (The Empire of the Antichrist) could begin any time after that.

What do you think? Is this scenario feasible?

Ken Rank · Oct 1, 2016

rob_aston said:
i wondered too, things like "in the same gen." then i gave up saying whatever...then i just trusted that He will do whatever, whenever

I agree with this Rob. I think too much eschatology distracts. While we should look toward his coming, be aware of the times in which we live... we have a calling, a people to reach out to, teach, feed, comfort.... and if we are all wrapped up in math problems involving Daniel and Revelation (seemingly forgetting all the other prophets, but I digress ) I think we end up not as efficient in the areas God called us to which then put us not in His perfect will. It will be what it will be when it will be. Blessings.

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