Thoughts on Grace

genez said:

Jesus was a Rabbi! Rabbis had disciples that followed them. Jesus was not unique in having disciples in the Jewish culture. It was a very Jewish thing to see in the land seeing a rabbi and his disciples.

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Ok do you want to address the op or leave the thread?

genez said:

I am addressing the OP... Its interrelated. Looks like you got something you were not expecting. Apparently you worked hard to construct what you have, and now someone comes along and shows you something that you did not know, which shoots down the premise of your OP. I see... Sorry.. I can only tell you what I have learned and tested over the years.

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As far as I can see there have been no new perspectives put forth.

If you'd like to start a thread on GT to discuss it but this forum isn't a debate forum.

genez said:

Does that mean anyone posting here must agree with an OP? I am curious how this is supposed to work.

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What usually happens is that you do your homework and present what you want from the Jewish writings. That would be ideally or you could just address the scripture in the op.

The song "Touching Heaven Changing Earth" says it well what binding and loosing is.

2 Altars , 2 forms of Prayer

There is a difference between offering prayer for ourselves and intercession; the difference can be seen at the altar in the outer court and at the altar of golden incense in the Holy Place (it's in the Holy Of Holies in Heaven) and it represents the difference of Christ's earthly work and His work as the only High Priest.

At the altar in the outer court our sins are dealt with. These are washed away at the laver as we daily wash our hands and feet, our work and our walk, of the daily dust of being in the world. Jesus says we are to do this for each other as well, when He gave the example of washing the disciples feet and would refer to the dust of each other's contact with the world. These cries reach heaven also saying "How long must we suffer to be here" as Jesus also said when coming from the Mt of transfiguration.

However this isn't intercession to be given at the golden altar. The golden altar is for giving to God's work, prayers that are associated with God's work, that are in alignment with what the The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are doing to further the Kingdom. This is the joining of prayer with the only High Priest, and the incense being presented in the heavenly tabernacle.

But first, we as His people, need to have our outer shells broken to release the spirit that has been enslaved to the flesh. The flesh is sacrificed at the outer altar and daily at the laver of cleansing.


Christ, who descended from Zerubbabel in a direct line, and is the sole Builder of the gospel temple.




God's altar was to be built of unhewn stones, that no trace of human skill or labour might be seen upon it.

When the temple was built all of the stones were worked on in the quarries but when the temple was put together everyone of the stones fit in place w/o the sound of a hammer. That's the work of mankind. But the unhewn stone is found in Daniel that crushes all of the manmade empires and blows the chaff into the wind, becoming a mountain that fills the earth.


Like Gideon's jars of clay that held the light we are also jars of clay that are broken to set the spirit free.