Those who denounce Paul

Harry3142 · Sep 11, 2013

Steve Petersen said:
I haven't read anyone saying this. Could you give a few links to posts that support your point?

I discovered this 20 years before the World Wide Web existed. Circa 1970 a neighbor of my wife and I was an SDA, and determined to have us 'bow the knee' to her minister (note that I wrote 'her minister' rather than writing 'God'). With this in mind she sent her minister to show us the error of our ways, as we were Christians who were attending a church other than the SDA sect.

When we came face-to-face with him, it became clear very quickly that he had the attitude of "Obey me or perish." We were to accept as literal events all that he told us to accept, and were to obey The Ten Commandments, as well as the other laws found in Torah, exactly as he told us we were to obey them. If we failed to do either of these, we were to see ourselves as lost souls. He thought that we would capitulate to his demand to have absolute authority over our lives if he threatened us with damnation unless we obeyed him. He was mistaken.

Steve Petersen · Sep 11, 2013

Harry3142 said:
I discovered this 20 years before the World Wide Web existed. Circa 1970 a neighbor of my wife and I was an SDA, and determined to have us 'bow the knee' to her minister (note that I wrote 'her minister' rather than writing 'God'). With this in mind she sent her minister to show us the error of our ways, as we were Christians who were attending a church other than the SDA sect.

When we came face-to-face with him, it became clear very quickly that he had the attitude of "Obey me or perish." We were to accept as literal events all that he told us to accept, and were to obey The Ten Commandments, as well as the other laws found in Torah, exactly as he told us we were to obey them. If we failed to do either of these, we were to see ourselves as lost souls. He thought that we would capitulate to his demand to have absolute authority over our lives if he threatened us with damnation unless we obeyed him. He was mistaken.

Do you have recent experience with people saying this here on CF?

joeboonda · Sep 11, 2013

Paul's words are God's/Christ's Word.

seeingeyes · Sep 11, 2013

Steve Petersen said:
Do you have recent experience with people saying this here on CF?

There are those who denounce Paul because they believe he overthrew the law in a way that Jesus never intended, and there are those who denounce Paul because they believe that Paul reburdened people with the law that Jesus already overthrew. (I could PM you examples of both, if you like, though it'd take me some time to dig up.)

Paul can't win for losing.

Edit: You know what I haven't seen, though, is a member of each of those groups in the same thread. I wonder how they'd get along?

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 11, 2013

Originally Posted by Harry3142

I discovered this 20 years before the World Wide Web existed. Circa 1970 a neighbor of my wife and I was an SDA, and determined to have us 'bow the knee' to her minister (note that I wrote 'her minister' rather than writing 'God'). With this in mind she sent her minister to show us the error of our ways, as we were Christians who were attending a church other than the SDA sect.

Are you still SDA? If not, why did you leave that sect? Thanks

.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 11, 2013

joeboonda said:
Paul's words are God's/Christ's Word.

.

Assyrian · Sep 11, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
[FONT=Arial said:

Harry3142[/font]]I discovered this 20 years before the World Wide Web existed.
Circa 1970 a neighbor of my wife and I was an SDA, and determined to have us 'bow the knee' to her minister (note that I wrote 'her minister' rather than writing 'God'). With this in mind she sent her minister to show us the error of our ways, as we were Christians who were attending a church other than the SDA sect.

Click to expand...

Are you still SDA? If not, why did you leave that sect? Thanks

.

I think you misread

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 11, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
Originally Posted by Harry3142

I discovered this 20 years before the World Wide Web existed. Circa 1970 a neighbor of my wife and I was an SDA, and determined to have us 'bow the knee' to her minister (note that I wrote 'her minister' rather than writing 'God').

Click to expand...

With this in mind she sent her minister to show us the error of our ways, as we were Christians who were attending a church other than the SDA sect.

Click to expand...

LittleLambofJesus said:

Are you still SDA? If not, why did you leave that sect? Thanks
.

Click to expand...

Assyrian said:
I think you misread

Your right. I did misread it......

.

.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 11, 2013

Koakku said:
It's pretty obvious that if Paul wasn't in the scriptures there will be a massive change in the understanding of the gospel and Christian living; so, what do you make of the people who denounce Paul? They claim that there was many errors in the passages he partaken in the bible and to the others that claim that he was a false apostle and what is your take on Paul?

To back-track. Recently I've got into a small discussion or a light-debate with someone about the law and the teachings of Paul. Basically this person has said that we are to follow the Ten Commandments and that there is no "new law" and that the "old law hasn't been done away with" as Paul and the writer of Hebrews stated against. This person has also claimed that Paul had no right to change anything written in Scriptures and then this person has also claimed that Paul was a follower of the original law.

These are some notable quotes from the person: "Paul isn't my Deity. He didn't try to be either." "The problem is with translation and traditions of men. They sucked me in, too, for a long time. If you will get online and research the ways language translations and traditions of men are twisting Paul's words, you will, I believe, learn a lot."

They are just confused...All you can do is hope the Holy Spirit will eventually shine It's light on them, as it did our brother Paul

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Koakku · Sep 11, 2013

Thank you all for your posts, i will continue to try to read some if not all of them.

Standing Up · Sep 11, 2013

Koakku said:
Thank you all for your posts, i will continue to try to read some if not all of them.

Consider that Paul was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. He knew the OT inside and out. He knew Deut 5 such that he could recite it in his sleep. He knew beyond anyone alive at the time what it took to be saved in the Sinai covenant (read Deut 5).

Along comes grace of God in Christ, like it was with Abraham, as Micah? prophesied (the just shall live by faith). What would you do, but shout the Good News from the roof tops?

Koakku · Sep 11, 2013

Standing Up said:
Consider that Paul was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. He knew the OT inside and out. He knew Deut 5 such that he could recite it in his sleep. He knew beyond anyone alive at the time what it took to be saved in the Sinai covenant (read Deut 5).

Along comes grace of God in Christ, like it was with Abraham, as Micah? prophesied (the just shall live by faith). What would you do, but shout the Good News from the roof tops?

I do not have a problem with Paul and his teachings, maybe you misread the first post if that's what you are getting at?

Standing Up · Sep 11, 2013

Koakku said:
I do not have a problem with Paul and his teachings, maybe you misread the first post if that's what you are getting at?

Understood. Thought you were looking for reasons why Paul's writings are considered inspired, as against what others (not you) are saying (not inspired).

Koakku · Sep 11, 2013

Standing Up said:
Understood. Thought you were looking for reasons why Paul's writings are considered inspired, as against what others (not you) are saying (not inspired).

Oh, Your post kind of confused me because i did not know where you were going with it at first. I believe that' that particular person i spoke of in the first post and the ministry the person linked me to has stated basically that. "We view what Paul taught over what Jesus taught too much and what Paul taught was not 100% accurate in it's current translation and also that Jesus followed the ten commandments and that we are to walk as Jesus did as said in 1 John 2:6 and that there is no new law."

ananda · Sep 12, 2013

HisSparkPlug said:
Since I think we can all trust that the original apostles were acting on Christ's behalf, then we must trust that Paul was also. If he were a false apostle, then why would the others support him as indicated in the scripture below..? If they were supporting a fake, then these apostles would also be called into question.. which means pretty much the entire NT could be termed bogus..

Acts 15:24-27
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.

This is written by Paul's friend and associate, Luke.

ananda · Sep 12, 2013

Harry3142 said:
Today those sects which attack St. Paul and his epistles are doing exactly what the Pharisees did. They claim that we must obey the laws of Torah to merit salvation, but they fail to mention that they themselves have attached laws to them via their own subsets. So in order to obey the laws of Torah, including The Ten Commandments, in a manner that will earn us salvation, we need to obey every law that is in every subset attached to every one of those original laws.

Paul is a Pharisee.

ananda · Sep 12, 2013

Metal Minister said:
Hard to see what you're talking about here, as those who deem Paul and his writings as not being scripture, are not following sola scriptura. Peter affirms that Paul and his works are scripture.

Is Peter infallible?

ananda · Sep 12, 2013

Mike to Michael said:
I guess they would say Luke, not being one of the original 12, and Paul's traveling partner, would, of course, write about Paul favorably. But the Paul haters shouldn't be taken seriously. They're heretics.

Can't we say the same about "Joseph Smith haters" or "Ellen White haters"?

ananda · Sep 12, 2013

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day, To denouce Paul is to deny the historical Christian view of his primary role for the church.

Perhaps you mean "to denounce Paul is to deny the late 2nd-3rd century church onwards"?

ananda · Sep 12, 2013

Standing Up said:
Consider that Paul was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. He knew the OT inside and out. He knew Deut 5 such that he could recite it in his sleep. He knew beyond anyone alive at the time what it took to be saved in the Sinai covenant (read Deut 5). Along comes grace of God in Christ, like it was with Abraham, as Micah? prophesied (the just shall live by faith). What would you do, but shout the Good News from the roof tops?

The Pharisees knew their own Oral Law, not YHWH's Written Law. This was why Messiah constantly preached against the Pharisees as serpents, hypocrites, whited tombs, blind guides, vipers & full of uncleanness and lawlessness; they block the way to heaven & teach their followers to become children of hell, and He wondered how they can escape the damnation of hell in Mt 23.

Those who denounce Paul

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