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Semiblind post: Didn't I read somewhere the dispute was that they would not accept a pay DECREASE? I would have voted NO on that contract as well. That is why we unionize. To collectively bargain for fair wages. The company was mismanaged. The workers did their job.
variant said:They've accepted several, they didn't want to accept the latest which would have meant their pay would be reduced to 25,000 year over the next couple of years after having their employee contribution based pension raided earlier this year.
It's better than what they have now.
variant said:Is it?
It's better to negotiate your own pay rather than work in a collective bargaining agreement without decent pay or benefits.
mathetes123 said:It's better than unemployment which is what they chose by killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
It's better than unemployment which is what they chose by killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
They sold $2.5 BILLION in product last year.
THey did not need to steal these people's pension fund
It's not that they needed to it's that they could.
They "borrowed" money from the pension fund and then went bankrupt and had a judge rule the money they "borrowed" a debt that they couldn't repay.
They had a judge ratify a contract before presenting it to the union so they couldn't be held liable when the company was forced to liquidate.
Corporate raiders if you ask me, they wanted to sell off this company piece by piece from the beginning. The Union was just a small stumbling block on their way.
A judge? So it was legal then?
Yes, you can steal peoples money legally sometimes.
Oh, I'm sorry "borrow" without the intention to repay.
So, you wish to defend the practice of stealing peoples pensions by "borrowing" the money and then declaring bankruptcy?
Is there any corporate practice that you won't defend?
The nly way the argument fails is if every MBA made 150 times what you make. They don'tCouple points: not every job is "truck driving" (and even then a CEO is not guaranteed to be able to drive a truck, that actually is a skill), but as I gave the example earlier: I'm a PhD scientist. I work in a chemical lab. There are only a tiny fraction of Americans who have a PhD. The CEO of the company I work for only has an MBA. There are many, many more MBA's than PhD's. It requires many more years of work to get a PhD.
Why do I not make 150 times what the CEO of my company does? The CEO of the company I work for would actually probably hurt themselves in my work place before they'd be able to do any good, such is the nature of our different jobs.
AND, without the research scientists in the company the company would have a very tough time competing.
The CEO, without benefit of all the work we do, would be just another suit sitting in a big empty conference room.
So why would a PhD make much less than an MBA?
Seems your argument fails.
So the judge is not the goverment? What laws did he pass to do this? Oh, judges can't make law, they can only rule on it. That means there was a legislature involved in the mess.
When you see a CEO running a business into the ground, go to the board of directors and tell them you will rescue the company for half the CEO's salary, or even less. Tell us how it works out.I think a CEO's value has been overestimated when they are paid more than 300 times the average worker to run the business into the ground.
When you see a CEO running a business into the ground, go to the board of directors and tell them you will rescue the company for half the CEO's salary, or even less. Tell us how it works out.
The nly way the argument fails is if every MBA made 150 times what you make. They don't
My suggestion to you is that if you think your PHD makes you a better candidate for the 150 times salary, apply for the job that pays that salary. My guess is that your PHD doesn't qualify you to run the company.
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