THIS is truth?

Iollain · Sep 25, 2007

lionroar0 said:
Wrong Ad Infinitum.

The Pope does not replace God and Mary does not replace Jesus.

Peace

HOWEVER...

when you say this:

It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.

Mary is replacing the Holy Spirit, He IS how Jesus reigns in the world.

Rick Otto · Sep 25, 2007

listen to people who speak out of one side of their mouth, Io.
It is awesome how they contradict themselves in the briefest of sentences! Not even many politicians can get away with that.
It truly boggles the mind to behold:

"BAh!

Peace"

ROFL!

Rhamiel · Sep 25, 2007

when you say this:

It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.

Mary is replacing the Holy Spirit, He IS how Jesus reigns in the world.

I did not say that, St. Louis-Marie said that, I have not read anything by this saint and you have caught me in a state of ignorance.

Here is what I can tell you, the Catholic Church is centered on Christ who is my Lord as much as he is your Lord, we love Mary we Love the saints but none of them could ever replace the place God has in our lives

Axion · Sep 26, 2007

Iollain said:
HOWEVER...

when you say this:

It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.

Mary is replacing the Holy Spirit, He IS how Jesus reigns in the world.

Nonsense. Typical fallacy of imagining a false contradiction where none exists.

Typical example...

The road is how I went to work this morning.

The car is how I went to work this morning.

Is there a contradiction? Is the car replacing the road? No.

Iollain · Sep 26, 2007

Anyway, i don't know how ya can stick up for this guy.

Rhamiel · Sep 26, 2007

Iollain, I am not sticking up for this guy, but all I got was a one line quote from a saint I never heard of. I can not say anything for or agianst him, since he is a saint I know that the Church thinks his life shows heroic courage for Our Lord in one way or another.
Why do you focus on these one liners from obscure people?

StTherese · Sep 26, 2007

Axion said:
Nonsense. Typical fallacy of imagining a false contradiction where none exists.

Typical example...

The road is how I went to work this morning.

The car is how I went to work this morning.

Is there a contradiction? Is the car replacing the road? No.

Exactly

Where exactly IS the contradiction?
It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.

Mary was chosen by God to bear His Son...
Out of obedience to God, she freely chose to do His Will (not hers)...
Through Mary's obedience to God's will, we have Jesus...
This is God's plan of salvation and how He chose to bring His Son into the world.

When we look to Mary, we see the Mother of God, the Mother of our Savior....She is pointing us to Christ, not away from Him.

Rick Otto · Sep 27, 2007

Where exactly IS the contradiction?

Right here:

it is also through her that he must reign in the world.

Odd that a person cannonized by Rome would be described as "obscure".

Rhamiel · Sep 27, 2007

in 2,000 years of history we have quit a few saints, I can not be expected to be intimate with all of their writings

lionroar0 · Sep 27, 2007

I can only

Click to expand...

listen to people who speak out of one side of their mouth, Io.
It is awesome how they contradict themselves in the briefest of sentences! Not even many politicians can get away with that.
It truly boggles the mind to behold:

Then instead of shifting the argument to me with an ad hoominem no less, perhaps you should point out the contradiction in my post.

Peace

lionroar0 · Sep 27, 2007

in 2,000 years of history we have quit a few saints, I can not be expected to be intimate with all of their writings

So true.

Peace

lionroar0 · Sep 27, 2007

it is also through her that he must reign in the world.

No contradiction there. He came into the world through Mary and thus He must reign the world through her.

Otherwise he would no have come into the world to reign.

Peace

Rick Otto · Sep 27, 2007

Rhami, my man!
It ain't about intimacy with detail, it is about blind faith in your Holy Mother Church!
How could you expect a mistake to possibly have been made?
Surely you don't believe The Magesterium would allow a statement defining jurisdiction thru Mary, from a miracle-on-the-resume'-required, officialy pronounced, "Saint" to stand, if it didn't uphold the statement?
I'm not bein' snide, either. I fully remember placing my full trust in The Roman Catholic Church, its management, staff, & subsidiaries to lesser deghrees.
The self-confidence I took from belonging to the oldest, the fullest, & the inerrant best Church was heady at times.
Disillusionment wasn't easy & sudden.

So pardon me, bro!
I didn't mean to pressure you like an Alex Trebec W/Attitude On Steroids about it, but the devotion is misplaced & over-pronounced from my insignificant little perspective. And I used to fervently partake of it, so it isn't like I know-nothing-about-it.

I've been celebrating the hyphen since I heard it was murdered by the Dictionary. Sorry I got a little-carried-away.

Rhamiel · Sep 28, 2007

what I see is protestants taking one liners and distorting the views of the Church, nothing like the bitterness of former Catholics agianst the Church,
I trust the Church, the Church has preserved the Truth in her Traditions and in her Writtings (the Bible)

SumTinWong · Sep 28, 2007

I suggest that every one read the Glories of Mary in proper context, and then resume this argument.

The Catholic position is that God chose Mary as the Mother of His Son. Mary acting in accord with God's will, gave birth to the author of our salvation therefore our salvation comes through Mary who did the will of God. I think any honst protestant will agree that Mary did nothing of her own accord and could not have given us our salvation without God, but we do owe her some sort of thanks for allowing it to happen through her just as we owe a debt to the early church for a great many things that they did to further the faith.

Now as a photographer let me use this analogy. Some Catholics and other early church fathers used a wide angle lens to get a bigger picture of Christ and His work on earth which included a huge array of things that many protestants feel are unnecessary because they use a macro lens (close ups) to focus only on one aspect of the faith which is Christ Himself. While I think this is unfortunate, in some ways I think books things like this, like the Glories of Mary and other such works of pious literature, tend to go over board and we end up losing focus on the center of the whole picture which is Christ.

I am not willing to go far with anything that has to do with Mary because most of her life is not only conjecture but the many explainations and doctrines are divisive and I do not believe honoring the Mother of God in any way.

Was she a virgin her whole life? Who cares. Was she sinless? Who cares. Blah blah blah.

If in fact Mary stands pointing at her son, our God then we should not be pointing to her, but following her example or lead and looking and pointing to Christ. Some will say but when we are pointing at Mary we are honoring her son, to which I reply, nonsense.

Apollo Celestio · Sep 29, 2007

It is not through Mary that Christ reigns. Christ reigns rather through the Father(Which could be saying out of his own power?), don't you think?

Rhamiel · Oct 1, 2007

Christ is King of all
Christ is Judge of all
the way it is "through His mother" is she was the person God used to bring the Incarnation into this world, literaly through Mary

Rick Otto · Oct 1, 2007

No, it isn't that way. That is grandiose.
His divinity was not thru Mary.
His divinity is thru eternity.
It goes, "I am that I am", not "I am that I am thru Mary".
But I gotta admit, she's realy cool.

Rhamiel · Oct 1, 2007

His divinity was not thru Mary.
His divinity is thru eternity.
It goes, "I am that I am", not "I am that I am thru Mary".
But I gotta admit, she's realy cool.

cool

Kristos · Oct 1, 2007

Rick Otto said:
No, it isn't that way. That is grandiose.
His divinity was not thru Mary.
His divinity is thru eternity.
It goes, "I am that I am", not "I am that I am thru Mary".
But I gotta admit, she's realy cool.

I'm Popeye the sailor man...toot toot!

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