Thinking Outside of the Box?

Ioustinos · Aug 16, 2004

Hi Folks

Ok so I know that in the Reformed circles we have our roster of favorite authors such as Calvin, Sproul, Spurgeon, Piper, etc......which everyone reads. But my question is this:

Who are some of the lesser known reformed authors that you enjoy reading or non-reformed authors who you enjoy reading? And by this I mean theological/bibilical themed works.

I don't know if anyone else notices this but in all circles (Reformed, Lutheran, Baptist, etc) we all have a certain group of authors that we always depend on (which of course is good to have solid foundations) but it seems we never entertain the thoughts of other brothers/sisters in Christ and their perspective.

Blessings

Justin

cygnusx1 · Aug 16, 2004

here's a few.....

Tony Campolo (yes , controversial)
C.J Mahaney (on tape)
Philip Yancey
John Bevere
John Metcalfe
Watchman Nee
W . Kelly (again , controversial)

blessedbe · Aug 16, 2004

Umm, what do you guys think of Rick Warren? I think the concept of the Purpose Driven Life is great. I haven't sat down and read it all yet, but I think getting to know your purpose, and using your talents for the good of the christian body is something all christians should strive for. Too many christians today are like the crowd in the bleachers watching the game--cheering on the active christians but never getting into the game--

blessedbe · Aug 16, 2004

oh, and phillip yancy is good. Just got done doing a video series on grace by him. It was pretty awesome!!

eutychus · Aug 16, 2004

blessedbe said:
Umm, what do you guys think of Rick Warren? I think the concept of the Purpose Driven Life is great. I haven't sat down and read it all yet, but I think getting to know your purpose, and using your talents for the good of the christian body is something all christians should strive for. Too many christians today are like the crowd in the bleachers watching the game--cheering on the active christians but never getting into the game--

Warren seems contradictory in what he teaches. I dunno if that's how he would be if he was a Calvinist, or if it's just his theology that makes him sound confused. That's my .02 anyway.

And I go to Southern Seminary, so I read anything from any of their professors (which are mostly Calvinistic). Russell Moore is especially amazing.

cygnusx1 · Aug 16, 2004

blessedbe said:
oh, and phillip yancy is good. Just got done doing a video series on grace by him. It was pretty awesome!!

speaking of videos , I recently purchased "Hell's Best kept secret" by Ray Comfort....fantastic program!!

I really like Ray's delivery.

Knight · Aug 16, 2004

Pastor Warren is, in all likelyhood, not a Calvinist.

As for other Reformed authors....... Max Lucado springs to mind.

blessedbe · Aug 16, 2004

Knight said:
Pastor Warren is, in all likelyhood, not a Calvinist.

As for other Reformed authors....... Max Lucado springs to mind.

I didn't know he was reformed!! I've read the Case for Christ and the Case for Faith--but that was before I became Calvinist. I really love his stuff! Where'd you find out he was reformed? I really missed it somehow...

I know Rick Warren is not Calvinist, but I do like his views on finding your purpose in Christ....

blessedbe · Aug 16, 2004

eutychus said:
Warren seems contradictory in what he teaches. I dunno if that's how he would be if he was a Calvinist, or if it's just his theology that makes him sound confused. That's my .02 anyway.

And I go to Southern Seminary, so I read anything from any of their professors (which are mostly Calvinistic). Russell Moore is especially amazing.

hmm, I think if Rick Warren was a Calvinist, his stuff would be even better, but I don't know if he'd be as popular!! LOL I think you're right about his theology making him sound a little confused. I try to look past some of the theology and get the gold nuggets out...

Wrigley · Aug 16, 2004

cygnusx1 said:
here's a few.....

Tony Campolo (yes , controversial)
C.J Mahaney (on tape)
Philip Yancey
John Bevere
John Metcalfe
Watchman Nee
W . Kelly (again , controversial)

Tony Campolo?

Why?

theseed · Aug 16, 2004

Lucado reformed? Really?

I suggest Oswald Chambers, who wrote "My Utmost for His Highest". And Matthew Henry, who was reformed Presbyterian. His complete commentery on The Bible is devotional and pratical in style and superb. Charles Stanley may be Calvnists, I'm not sure, but is work is very practical. He advocates eternal security.

I'm sure that Warren is not Calvinists, neither is Beth Moore. Both Moore and Warrne try to show that God wants to save everbody, a subtle, but deliberate smack against Calvinism. Warren has been criticized for his "Purpose Driven Church" methodology. He is an advocate of "Seeker-Sensitive" churches. I like his PDL, and it is soft theology and milk for babies. But so many of our church laity need that. He is also criticized for merchandising the PDL. However, there is nothing wrong with trying to making lots of money in and of itself. He points out that God gifts people to be CEO's for God's Kingdom.

cygnusx1 · Aug 17, 2004

Wrigley said:
Tony Campolo?

Why?

I find the man very challenging to my doctrinal mind , he kinda makes me think on different levels......(please don't assume because he made some mistakes that he isn't very useful, we all make mistakes)

I love hearing him on tape......as well as C J Mahaney......they are both powerful speakers with very deep minds.....and they make me laugh...alot!!

blessedbe · Aug 17, 2004

theseed said:
Lucado reformed? Really?

I'm sure that Warren is not Calvinists, neither is Beth Moore. Both Moore and Warrne try to show that God wants to save everbody, a subtle, but deliberate smack against Calvinism. Warren has been criticized for his "Purpose Driven Church" methodology. He is an advocate of "Seeker-Sensitive" churches. I like his PDL, and it is soft theology and milk for babies. But so many of our church laity need that. He is also criticized for merchandising the PDL. However, there is nothing wrong with trying to making lots of money in and of itself. He points out that God gifts people to be CEO's for God's Kingdom.

Seeker-sensitive churches. Yea, that's the church I'm in right now, and you are right. The sat/sunday services are geared towards non-christians and new christians--so it is alot of milk. But I don't see anything wrong with that. Our Wednesday night services are alot deeper and geared towards christians only, so it's a good mix. There are soo many people out there who are critical of "seeker-sensitive' churches and I just don't why. Aren't we supposed to be going out and actively searching and preaching? As long as the 'seeker-sensitive' church is going to 'feed' the new christians and get them off milk and onto meat, then I think it's great. So I think Warren is great for that aspect anyway!

I also don't see the problem with making money as long as you're keeping things in perspective and using the money to further God's Kingdom. There is nothing wrong with being rich, but I think God will hold you accountable for how you use your riches. Somebody has to have the money to support God's Kingdom! I think being rich brings in issues and problems that immature christians probably don't know how to deal with. God probably keeps most of us "poor" because most of us couldn't handle prosperity without 'getting off track' in our relationship to Him.

theseed · Aug 17, 2004

blessedbe said:
Seeker-sensitive churches. Yea, that's the church I'm in right now, and you are right. The sat/sunday services are geared towards non-christians and new christians--so it is alot of milk. But I don't see anything wrong with that. Our Wednesday night services are alot deeper and geared towards christians only, so it's a good mix. There are soo many people out there who are critical of "seeker-sensitive' churches and I just don't why. Aren't we supposed to be going out and actively searching and preaching? As long as the 'seeker-sensitive' church is going to 'feed' the new christians and get them off milk and onto meat, then I think it's great. So I think Warren is great for that aspect anyway!

I also don't see the problem with making money as long as you're keeping things in perspective and using the money to further God's Kingdom. There is nothing wrong with being rich, but I think God will hold you accountable for how you use your riches. Somebody has to have the money to support God's Kingdom! I think being rich brings in issues and problems that immature christians probably don't know how to deal with. God probably keeps most of us "poor" because most of us couldn't handle prosperity without 'getting off track' in our relationship to Him.

Seeker sensitive churches have been criticized for not preaching judgment, condemnation, and rightous as John the Baptist and Paul did. They say that they don't mention hell either.

blessedbe · Aug 17, 2004

theseed said:
Seeker sensitive churches have been criticized for not preaching judgment, condemnation, and rightous as John the Baptist and Paul did. They say that they don't mention hell either.

That's the biggest thing I was worried about when I started going to this church. I don't want the gospel watered down for anyone, even new christians, or the "seekers". I was very pleasantly suprised that this church(and I can't speak for others) does NOT do that. We had a whole series on hell alone last year(although I'm not sure I agreed with some of it, but that's a personal thing), and our pastor makes it clear that being a christian is not a free ride. He is big on growth. He makes it clear that God expects christians to grow in faith and wisdom, and the consequences if you don't.

Now, I'm sure there are plenty of "seeker-sensitive" churches that water down the gospel to keep the members happy, but I'd bet alot of money there is the same problem in other churches too!

blessedbe · Aug 17, 2004

About the only things I disagree with in this church is the Arminian thing--they teach that regeneration occures at conversion or something like that. That God makes you a brand new person and changes you when you accept Jesus into your life. I of course hold to the Calvinist view on regeneration.

I also don't hold to their end times theory. They are pre-tribbers. Luckily they don't really teach it, but it comes out occationally. I've had to sit down and really pray and search my heart to see if these two differences are big enough to make me leave, and I've come to the conclusion they aren't. There are too many other things that are awesome about this church; the love, and community spirit are awesome, and the outreach programs are great.
I don't know if what the future holds for me, but I do know God's keeping me right here in this church for now....I just have to come here to CF to get great teachings on Calvinism!

Knight · Aug 17, 2004

blessedbe said:
I didn't know he was reformed!! I've read the Case for Christ and the Case for Faith--but that was before I became Calvinist. I really love his stuff! Where'd you find out he was reformed? I really missed it somehow...

I know Rick Warren is not Calvinist, but I do like his views on finding your purpose in Christ....

Lee Strobel wrote A Case for Christ and A Case for Faith.

Lucado wrote In The Grip of Grace, He Still Moves Stones, It's Not about Me, and many others.

I recall reading somewhere that he's reformed. I don't remember where.

Regardless, read "In The Grip of Grace." The last chapter is quite reformed. I can't testify to any other part as I have not read the whole thing.

blessedbe · Aug 17, 2004

Knight said:
Lee Strobel wrote A Case for Christ and A Case for Faith.

Lucado wrote In The Grip of Grace, He Still Moves Stones, It's Not about Me, and many others.

I recall reading somewhere that he's reformed. I don't remember where.

Regardless, read "In The Grip of Grace." The last chapter is quite reformed. I can't testify to any other part as I have not read the whole thing.

brain cramp!!!!!

theseed · Aug 18, 2004

blessedbe said:
About the only things I disagree with in this church is the Arminian thing--they teach that regeneration occures at conversion or something like that. That God makes you a brand new person and changes you when you accept Jesus into your life. I of course hold to the Calvinist view on regeneration.

I also don't hold to their end times theory. They are pre-tribbers. Luckily they don't really teach it, but it comes out occationally. I've had to sit down and really pray and search my heart to see if these two differences are big enough to make me leave, and I've come to the conclusion they aren't. There are too many other things that are awesome about this church; the love, and community spirit are awesome, and the outreach programs are great.
I don't know if what the future holds for me, but I do know God's keeping me right here in this church for now....I just have to come here to CF to get great teachings on Calvinism!

My churh is similar to yours, and I feel that they are doing great things for God's Kingdom, and reaching out to others, and making them feel welcome in our church.

Cajun Huguenot · Aug 18, 2004

I would recommend Keith Mathison's books on the Lord's Supper and Sola Scriptura.

I also think we need to read old stuff:
St. Athanasus' On the Incarnation is a must.
Clement of Rome's Epistle to the Corinthians
I'm nearly finished with St. Cyprian's Corrispondence. Very interesting.
I can also Highly recommend St. Vincents of Lérins book The Commonitory.
I found Thomas à Kempis' Immitation of Christ to be a wonderfully devotional work.
J.H.M. d'Aubigné is a fine Reformed Historian
Junius Brutus' Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos is a French Reformational work on limited government. A classic was popular during the War for Independence.
Nearer to the present JC Ryle is always wonderful.
R.L Dabney Systematics and Discussions are very good stuff.

RJ Rushdoony, Greg Bahnsen, Norman Shepherd (big controversy), Marvin Olasky, Francis Schaeffer.
Christopher Dawson (Good historian -- Roman Catholic)
Justo L. Gonzalez's The Story of Christianity (2 vol.) is very good.

Etc.

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