"Think of the Children!"

WalksWithChrist · Dec 19, 2008

PreachersWife2004 said:
That doesn't happen because you're friends with them, that happens because there is a mutual respect. In the end, you may do these things with your parents (I'm assuming stuff like going to movies and things like that) but when you got in trouble, your parents didn't laugh it off or ignore it.

Your relationship sounds much like my relationship with my folks as well as my children. But there is a difference between being someone's friend and someone's parent.

And that is good...but it's not because you and your parents are "friends".

I also believe that as we grow up, it becomes harder for us to gauge what our actual relationship with our parents was when we were younger. For instance, I definitely consider my mom my best friend, but I'm 35 and a parent myself. I'm an adult. But when I was 13, I love my mom and we did a lot of mom/daughter things together, but when push came to shove SHE was the boss, not me.

Relationships such as the one you talk about and that I experienced are based on love between the family, not a friendship.

My aunt and my cousin are a good example of what not to do as parents/children. My cousin never got in trouble, never got punished for anything she did that was wrong. I remember staying at their house for a week while my cousin was attending summer school and the teacher made her stay after for being disruptive. My aunt proceeded to sit down with my cousin and totally bash the guy and talk about what a horrible teacher he was and how he probably didn't get laid enough. Please...that's the kind of talk I'd expect my cousin to have with one of her friends, or even me, not her MOM. My aunt would take my cousin to go look for her boyfriend at all hours of the night and my aunt let my cousin drink at home on a regular basis because "sooner or later she's gonna do it...might as well have her do it here".

So my cousin got waaaaaay off track in her life for awhile. She coudn't hold down a job, she got kicked out art school. Her boyfriends were a string of trashy no-good losers. I don't know what got her back on track, cuz it was not my aunt. Perhaps my uncle finally stepped in. But now that my cousin is a parent, she has said that she will not make the same mistakes.

I hope that clarifies the difference between being a "friend" and being a parent more. It's not to say that parents can't have a loving, fun social relationship with their children. It's just hard to balance that with being the boss, too.

I'm going to jump on this and hopefully not drag this one too far off topic.

I agree that a parent should indeed be the "boss" but that doesn't mean excluding friendship. You said before your kids don't talk to you like they talk to their friends. Well, I wouldn't expect them to. (some kinds do still...another thread for that one maybe) But does that mean you do not enjoy a type of friendship with a child? I would say no.

Let me be clear. I do not advocate being a "buddy" to a kid and letting them get away with murder. I know some parents like that and the harm that can be done is staggering. I wasn't "friends" with either of my parents growing up for the most part, but I have seen parents with kids that were and they turned out way better than I did.

I think in the end it's all about drawing the line when things hit the fan.

jcook922 · Dec 19, 2008

While I think that sheltering children is something that's being done TOO much in the US, I think what they are exposed to at home in daily life is something that could use a little control.

I do, however, get really tired of shocked parents seeing what goes on in public schools and sending their kids off to private schools. I appreciated going to public school because it taught me how to interact with people, especially when it came fo conflict. I felt when I graduated I was better prepared to interact with others in difficult situations than someone who went to a private school.

In other words, I was completely unsheltered and liked the way I turned out just fine. I'm in the service, which by no means reformed me. I work hard for a living, and maintain a good moral outlook despite being exposed to plenty of distasteful things. That's probably where I can place blame for my colorful and sometimes dark sense of humor.

PreachersWife2004 · Dec 19, 2008

Parents who think that behavior(s) exhibited in public schools aren't exhibited in private schools really need to be educated.

I went to a private school for two years and my oldest son goes to a private school and the rest of my children will go to private schools as well. Not because of any ill feelings towards the public schools (although things ARE much different now than they were in my day) but because we want them to be reinforced with their religious studies. They get a good dose of learning plus a Christian atmosphere. But that doesn't mean that they don't sin, or they don't mess up just like public school kids do. And in private schools that are not parochial, I've seen attitudes of kids (and teachers sometimes) far worse than the public schools.

I don't appreciate some of the things that are taught in the public schools, but the idea that the children who attend them are somehow far worse is a ludicrous notion.

Polycarp_fan · Dec 19, 2008

jcook922 said:
While I think that sheltering children is something that's being done TOO much in the US, I think what they are exposed to at home in daily life is something that could use a little control.

That's too creepy for a guy that claims to fight for liberty.

I do, however, get really tired of shocked parents seeing what goes on in public schools and sending their kids off to private schools.

Gangs, thugs and porn heores are good reasons to get your children the ____ out of public schools. Probably the only thing I agree with the Obama's on. Michelle went to Chicago city schools and knows the odds of getting to where she did is long for most parentless baby-momma kids that litter the public school systems.

I appreciated going to public school because it taught me how to interact with people, especially when it came fo conflict.

You tick off a gangsta and the conflict only ends with your death or removal from that school.

I felt when I graduated I was better prepared to interact with others in difficult situations than someone who went to a private school.

Hmm, yet most of your commanding officers went to private schools. As did the lawyers and judges and doctors and engineers making up the successful population.

In other words, I was completely unsheltered and liked the way I turned out just fine.

You're still cooking J. You're not done just yet. There's a lot of life past your twenties.

I'm in the service, which by no means reformed me.

I was in more fistfights in in the first four months of being in the Army then in all of my previous years of life. And I studied boxing for several years. Made for easy work in my Army life.

I work hard for a living, and maintain a good moral outlook despite being exposed to plenty of distasteful things. That's probably where I can place blame for my colorful and sometimes dark sense of humor.

Those of us with their children in private schools tell our kids why. They don;t need to be raped to know bad kids do bad things. Heck they watch MTV and listen to hip hop. And going to Wal Mart or the Mall gives them the rest. That's enough real debauchery for the growing years.

You don't need to have a cap in your @ss to know who and what to avoid.

Good parents, good kids.

PreachersWife2004 · Dec 19, 2008

WalksWithChrist said:
I'm going to jump on this and hopefully not drag this one too far off topic.

I agree that a parent should indeed be the "boss" but that doesn't mean excluding friendship. You said before your kids don't talk to you like they talk to their friends. Well, I wouldn't expect them to. (some kinds do still...another thread for that one maybe) But does that mean you do not enjoy a type of friendship with a child? I would say no.

Let me be clear. I do not advocate being a "buddy" to a kid and letting them get away with murder. I know some parents like that and the harm that can be done is staggering. I wasn't "friends" with either of my parents growing up for the most part, but I have seen parents with kids that were and they turned out way better than I did.

I think in the end it's all about drawing the line when things hit the fan.

I guess it depends on how people define the word "friends". I had a great relationship with my parents, and my oldest right now enjoys the same type of relationship (although he still rails against us occasionally when he gets in trouble - as expected and as did I.) with my husband and I, even though my husband is technically his step-father. But he knows where the fun stops and the seriousness begins, I guess. He and I can tease each other, but he still respects me. And I think that is they key.

In the process, there are things that I might "shelter" him from, or protect him from, but the idea of saying that something is wrong because of how it will affect the children (unless it's being done specifically to the children) doesn't always hold true with me.

jcook922 · Dec 19, 2008

Polycarp_fan said:
That's too creepy for a guy that claims to fight for liberty.

I meant that PARENTS should know what their kids are doing, and monitor what they are exposed to, intervening on their discretion.

Gangs, thugs and porn heores are good reasons to get your children the ____ out of public schools. Probably the only thing I agree with the Obama's on. Michelle went to Chicago city schools and knows the odds of getting to where she did is long for most parentless baby-momma kids that litter the public school systems.

I blame parents for kids that turn out like that, not the schools. I was exposed to gangs and porn in public school, and I didn't turn out a gangster or a drug addict.

You tick off a gangsta and the conflict only ends with your death or removal from that school.

I had one hell of a loud mouth in high school, and it got me into some fights. I'm still here, and I'm still just as defiant when people decide to be ignorant and shoot their mouth off IRL.

Hmm, yet most of your commanding officers went to private schools. As did the lawyers and judges and doctors and engineers making up the successful population.

No, my commanding officer and his wife are both prior enlisted who went to public school in the same neighborhood I did. They turned out ok, his wife is a Captain, and the CO of the Personnel Unit, while my CO is a Captain, and on the civilian side is an LAPD officer. Both are good people, plenty of the officers here aren't from private schools, it doesn't automatically make you a better person.

You're still cooking J. You're not done just yet. There's a lot of life past your twenties.

My point was that I don't see myself going into a downhill spiral into drugs and negativity. Im a sharp troop and I have a promising career ahead of me, and by no means did public school keep me down.

I was in more fistfights in in the first four months of being in the Army then in all of my previous years of life. And I studied boxing for several years. Made for easy work in my Army life.

I wouldn't know, most of my unit get along pretty well and if people don't get along it doesn't end up a fistfight. Must be part of the fact that the Air Force might have some, but aren't chock full of meatheads like the Army.

Those of us with their children in private schools tell our kids why. They don;t need to be raped to know bad kids do bad things. Heck they watch MTV and listen to hip hop. And going to Wal Mart or the Mall gives them the rest. That's enough real debauchery for the growing years.

I was surrounded by debauchery and sin in school growing up, and I managed to be informed as to what all those things are without immersing myself in them. I've never done drugs, I'm not going around having unprotected sex with anything with two legs... I turned out ok so far, and I went to a public school. I had some pretty decent teachers too, so I don't see how you have any grounds to say such things.

You don't need to have a cap in your @ss to know who and what to avoid.

Good parents, good kids.

Responses in bold.

WalksWithChrist · Dec 19, 2008

PreachersWife2004 said:
I guess it depends on how people define the word "friends". I had a great relationship with my parents, and my oldest right now enjoys the same type of relationship (although he still rails against us occasionally when he gets in trouble - as expected and as did I.) with my husband and I, even though my husband is technically his step-father. But he knows where the fun stops and the seriousness begins, I guess. He and I can tease each other, but he still respects me. And I think that is they key.

In the process, there are things that I might "shelter" him from, or protect him from, but the idea of saying that something is wrong because of how it will affect the children (unless it's being done specifically to the children) doesn't always hold true with me.

Yes. To me the word "friend" is pretty flexible.

My daughter is six months now. I fully plan to be a friend to her. But I also plan to be there to put on the brakes when I need to!

lawtonfogle · Dec 19, 2008

WalksWithChrist said:
Yes. To me the word "friend" is pretty flexible.

My daughter is six months now. I fully plan to be a friend to her. But I also plan to be there to put on the brakes when I need to!

Really, it depends on the type of friend. You have friends which encourage them to do things they shouldn't, and friends who try there best to keep them from doing such, even betraying trust if it is the only way to save them from something which could ruin their life (say driving drunk). Parents, should in part, be this second friend, because if they are only a parent, they won't be the confident that they need to be to do the job in the teenage years.

BananaSlug · Dec 20, 2008

Polycarp_fan said:
It's more like allowing children be to children when they are supposed to be. A nine-year old shouldn't have to endure some older person's perspectives. Let kids be kids. If you are not trying to protect your children and other people's children, you're a monster. There's just no other word that will do.

You don't need to sugarcoat everything for them either. My friend's grandmother was slapped in the face when she was young for saying "pregnant." Back in the early part of the 20th Century kids were working in the mills. Kids can still be kids but we don't need to shelter them from everything out there.

Are you from the university of the Banana Slugs? You may find many of the culprits of the dumbing and wimping down of American youth right where you're getting your learnin'. And of course a very darkening of American youth culture as well. But, if you're not from Santa Cruz, where the Rainbow flag of gayness literally flies over the populace of all ages, I apologize.

No, I went to Winthrop University in Rock Hill, SC.

And that's a bad thing? Keeping miscreants and reprobates from influencing children is a very noble quest. Dope smokers usually come eith a whole bag of debachery tricks for kids.

Actually many of the people who enjoy Cannabis (including me) are hard working tax-paying Americans who love their family and country. The simple fact is we need to teach our children responsibility. I do not plan on telling my kids not to drink alcohol when they get older. I hope to teach them restraint and how to be responsible should they choose to do such activities.

STD stands for sexually transmitted disease. It's not an oil additive. That would be STP. ST "D" is a epidimec in our children. Provin the monster designation for older people "educating children" on sexuality (homo) are well defined and deserve the monster status. 1 in 4 girls now have an STD. And it's NOT from a lack of sexuality being peddled to them.

Actually it is. No parents want to teach their children about safe sex. I hope to teach my children that sex is a very special thing and it is best to wait until marriage but I also have the responsibility to teach them safe methods should they choose not to wait.

Parent of the Year stuff there. And of course many children survive childhood by implementation of the above by their good family members. Their called a mother and a father in the best mode. That "bad influences" tell them not to wear such things. Liberalism implemented on the street corner and skate parks.

Welcome to humanism's liberal influence since its rise to influence in our education system. Don't blame any conservtive for it. Losing is fought by those that hate its taste. Winners thrive from losses.
Does that include effeminate pansies? People marching in anti war parades in countries that defend liberty and fight for justice? You never see San Francisco-ites protesting in Mecca. Pacisist really means apathist it seems.
How about women acting more like men than women? When the world is turned upside down, people fall.
But they are not sex toys either. They don't even understand the concept. But adults do.
A rather comon trait.
If you teach children the anatomical appropriateness of sexuality, you are accused of being a homophobe and prude these days by a segment of society that want to teach childrren every aspect of sexuality in pre-school when they are barely not babies any more.
Should that include debauchery? Does that include being debauched as a child by someone older and more horny?
You have to establish correct morality and decent behavior before you can introduce darker concepts. That starts with anatomically correct sexuality in the case of this thread.
You need to place blame for the wimpification of our society squarely on the shoulders and moral thinking of lefftist/liberal/progressive ideologues. Even dodgeball is seen as horrible to this social perspective.
This thread will either be very short or very long. Most people do not want to take a stand for children's morality anymore.

I honestly do not see where you are trying to go with this. I do take a stand for children's morality but I don't think telling kids about the "stork bringing babies" is right. Teaching kids not to be ashamed of their bodies is different from "being debauched." How many parents tell their children it is wrong to touch?
Is it wrong to take a child to a museum that shows nude images of the human form? If it is then why don't we just blindfold the kid every time he takes a bath so he doesn't see his "naughty bits." I see nothing wrong with teaching children that the natural form is nothing to be ashamed of. How this relates to child molestation is beyond me.

WalksWithChrist · Dec 20, 2008

lawtonfogle said:
Really, it depends on the type of friend. You have friends which encourage them to do things they shouldn't, and friends who try there best to keep them from doing such, even betraying trust if it is the only way to save them from something which could ruin their life (say driving drunk). Parents, should in part, be this second friend, because if they are only a parent, they won't be the confident that they need to be to do the job in the teenage years.

True. I've had lots of friends over the years that could fit in either category. And I usually chose to stick with the ones who keep me out of trouble!

If a parent can be this kind of friend, then by all means they should.

PreachersWife2004 · Dec 20, 2008

When I was in my late teens, my parents always discouraged me from drinking, because it was illegal. But they always maintained that if I got myself into a situation and I needed to get home but I was too intoxicated to drive, they would come and get me.

It didn't mean there wouldn't be consequences, but they would pick me up.

Fortunately, I never had to test them on that theory myself, but my brother did, twice. And yes, they picked him up. And his car privileges were revoked for a week each time.

Flibbertigibbet · Dec 20, 2008

BananaSlug said:
I don't think telling kids about the "stork bringing babies" is right. Teaching kids not to be ashamed of their bodies is different from "being debauched." How many parents tell their children it is wrong to touch?

I'm a mom of 4, ranging from 24 to 3, so I've been parenting for a lot of years. In all those years and during many discussions with other parents, I have never once met anyone who teaches their children the above.

PreachersWife2004 · Dec 20, 2008

I was told it was wrong to touch - because that's what our faith teaches us. So what? I'm not repressed or anything like that, it was just something I didn't do.

"Think of the Children!"

Seeking God's Will

Defender of Liberty, against the Left or Right.

by his wounds we are healed

Well-Known Member

by his wounds we are healed

Defender of Liberty, against the Left or Right.

Seeking God's Will

My solace my terror, my terror my solace.

Life is an experiment, experience it!

Seeking God's Will

by his wounds we are healed

Flibbertigibbet

Guest

by his wounds we are healed

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency