There is NO rapture!!!

Super Kal said:

i do want to note simply in this part, bushmaster, that you have only quoted teaching from post-nicene writings. Chiliasm was not considered as a heretical teaching by the ante-Nicene church leaders- in fact, they taught premillennialism as truth when it came to eschatology, and this goes for Hippolytus, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many others.

i will say on account, though, that even though they taught premillennialism, that does not automatically make them dispensationalists or pre-tribbers. you are right, modern day popular premillennialism, or "dispensational premillennialism" came from Darby & the Plymouth Brethren... historical premillennialism, however, did not.

i can provide links to sources of documents if you'd like

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Thanks for pointing this out Kal, yes I would appreciate the documents, links to put in my study. I made the quote to indicate the 4th Ecumenical Council's decision... Something must have happened in between...

Bushmaster78FS said:

This really doesn't have anything to do with the God-breathed divinely inspired Holy Scriptures. I do give Early Church Fathers more credence over YOU and the interpretation you support, not the Word of God... The shame is that you depart from Christian orthodoxy, and expect that everyone be in line with you. Study the Early Church Fathers, they were Christians too, and much better ones.

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Not only have I studied them, but there is a thread I posted called pretrib refute of the ECF.

Give it a shake, for you have proved nothing as to early church orthodoxy imo.

I never put them down as you accuse, but neither do I put them on the level of the Apostles.

Facts..............there is a gathering of the elect at the SC. The result is resurrection. The means is via harpazo.... a verb, not a noun.

Frankie

chalkstc said:

Not only have I studied them, but there is a thread I posted called pretrib refute of the ECF.

Give it a shake, for you have proved nothing as to early church orthodoxy imo.

I never put them down as you accuse, but neither do I put them on the level of the Apostles.

Facts..............there is a gathering of the elect at the SC. The result is resurrection. The means is via harpazo.... a verb, not a noun.

Frankie

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I don't agree with your opinion. Most Early Church Fathers are direct successors of the Apostles, succession of Apostolic tradition is how Christianity survived to this day, and that is why Church canonized most as Saints. This doesn't not involve Reformation which I see as heresy to begin with. Like I said, Darby had studied scriptures too may I ask what your difference is?

If you claim you refute the Early Church Fathers, I am not going to take you up on that here, but where that theology belongs, The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox - Christian Forums

I don't agree with your opinion. Most Early Church Fathers are direct successors of the Apostles, succession of Apostolic tradition is how Christianity survived to this day, and that is why Church canonized most as Saints. This doesn't not involve Reformation which I see as heresy to begin with. Like I said, Darby had studied scriptures too may I ask what your difference is?

If you claim you refute the Early Church Fathers, I am not going to take you up on that here, but where that theology belongs, The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox - Christian Forums

Somehow you got me confused. If you read my thread you would know that. And I do not follow or believe Darby, but I do believe in a postrib gathering/rapture/resurrection of the saints at the SC.

If you can disprove that, go for it.

What I did say from one of your comments was that you believed Paul had a brain drain when it came to the rapture and none of the church fathers preached it. That is when I said you gave more credence to them than the Word of God.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but it happens often.

I detest labels, but I am a historic premillenialist with a postrib view of the SC. So I hope you know now that all those who believe in a rapture or gathering of the saints are not dispensationalists or pretribbers as was Darby.

Frankie

So take a look at the thread.....it's all the quotes from the EFC.