Theistic evolution and the nature of God

Aaron112 · Oct 6, 2023

AMPC
Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose, and action),

Aaron112 · Oct 6, 2023

2 Timothy 3:16-17
Complete Jewish Bible

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living; 17 thus anyone who belongs to God may be fully equipped for every good work.

Job 33:6 · Oct 6, 2023

Aaron112 said:
biblehub.com › 2_peter › 1-20.htm

2 Peter 1:20 - Bible Hub
2 Peter 1:20 Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things. New Living Translation

Above all, you must realize that

no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet's own understanding,

Let's read the whole passage here:
knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:20‭-‬21 KJV

Holy men, such as Moses, of God, spoke as they were moved.

Meaning that prophecy, while originating from God, still passes through the understanding and context of the human authors. This is why Paul would say "I Paul, am writing to such and such church". Because Paul was inspired, but he was still the author writing in his own context and from his perspective.

Job 33:6 · Oct 6, 2023

Aaron112 said:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Complete Jewish Bible
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living; 17 thus anyone who belongs to God may be fully equipped for every good work.

As noted above.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.
Colossians 1:1‭-‬2 ESV

Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— and all the brothers who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:
Galatians 1:1‭-‬2 ESV

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:1‭-‬2‭, ‬7 ESV

Scripture is inspired and good for teaching, but it is still authored by people. In the above examples, Paul clearly identified himself as the author.

You can't just say "well God wrote the Bible so therefore there is no human context". That's bad hermeneutics and it's a poor understanding of scripture.

Aaron112 · Oct 6, 2023

biblehub.com › 2_peter › 1-20.htm

2 Peter 1:20 - Bible Hub

2 Peter 1:20 Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Above all, you must understand that

>>>> no prophecy of Scripture <<<<
came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.

New Living Translation

Above all,
you must realize that

no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet's own understanding,

Job 33:6 · Oct 6, 2023

Aaron112 said:
biblehub.com › 2_peter › 1-20.htm

2 Peter 1:20 - Bible Hub
2 Peter 1:20 Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Above all, you must understand that

>>>> no prophecy of Scripture <<<<
came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.

New Living Translation

Above all,
you must realize that

no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet's own understanding,

Prophecies still have context. They're written in the context of the authors that wrote them:

knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20‭-‬21 ESV

The Biblical authors do not speak of things that they have no perception of. Otherwise they would not know their own prophecies, nor would their audience have any understanding of it.

Imagine if God gave a prophecy about cell phones and satellite dishes.

Such things are never mentioned in the Bible, nor would the author have understood such a thing, nor the audience. It would have been completely meaningless to the church for the past 3,000 years.

You cannot have a revelation when nothing is actually being revealed.

Derf · Oct 6, 2023

Job 33:6 said:
Subdue and rule in the Bible are terms used with relation to war conquest. It's not a matter of opinion, it's just a fact.

Here are the 13 uses for subdue:
War conquest:
Numbers 32:21
Numbers 32:29
Joshua 18:1
2 Samuel 8:11
Chronicles 22:18
Zechariah 9:15
Enslavement:
2 chron 28:10
Nehemiah 5:5
Jeremiah 34:11 and 16
Trampling (God trampling sin and destroying it)
Micah 7:19
Physical assault of a woman:
Esther 7:9

Now when we go back to Genesis, this same term is being used with relation to wild birds and fish.

They weren't supposed to eat their enemies.

Job 33:6 · Oct 6, 2023

Derf said:
They weren't supposed to eat their enemies.

They could certainly subjugate them and use them for their own purposes. Ie, we use wild fish for....

Food.

And they absolutely were allowed to kill their enemies as well.

You see. People want to re-invent what the Bible says based on our 21st century opinion.

You want it to talk about whale oil? Just call it prophecy.

You want the psalmist to talk about social media?

Just call it prophecy.

You want Genesis to talk about the Big Bang?

Just call it prophecy

You want Deuteronomy to talk about capitalism?

Just call it prophecy.

The church has a problem with bending the Bible over it's knee in order to make the Bible address issues that it doesn't address.

No, the Bible doesn't talk about whale oil. In an ancient context of the original authorship, indeed it only makes sense in terms of consuming wild fish and birds. And at the very least, certainly killing those animals if they posed a threat to humankind.

And that's part of what the dominion mandate of Genesis is all about. That's why Adam and Eve are commanded to subdue, war conquest language. Because the world beyond Eden was dangerous. It was imperfect.

Job 33:6 · Oct 6, 2023

Derf said:
They weren't supposed to eat their enemies.

And even getting whale oil still requires killing whales anyway, unless you think that Adam and Eve had some other means of going out on the ocean and getting it done without hurting them.

But this is just blatant anachronism. It's confusion over the text because our own modern perceptions are blurring our understanding of the original historical understanding of the text.

It's the same reason some people think that each Genesis day is billions of years long because they think that earth is old based on modern science. But really what's happening is, our modern understanding and culture is blurring our perception of the original context and meaning.

Here's another simple example:

Imagine for thousands of years, nobody knew why Genesis 1:28 mentioned wild fish. And then in the 1700s whalers started harvesting whale oil and they said "YES! We've finally discovered the meaning of Genesis 1:28!"

The ancient isrealites audience must have been so confused at the time.

Same with Genesis 1:1-3. Thank goodness Albert Einstein lived in our age, otherwise none of us would have ever known that it was talking about the Big Bang. What ever would we have done?

There's something odd that occurs when we try to take modern ideas and stick them backwards into the text. We seem to always assume that the text must be written directly to us.

Paul, to the church of the United States of America in the year 2023. An apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Job 33:6 · Oct 6, 2023

Derf said:
They weren't supposed to eat their enemies.

“Of all that are in the waters you shall eat these: whatever has fins and scales you may eat. Deuteronomy 14:9

I mean think about it. Why would God tell the isrealites that they may eat fish with fins and scales? Didn't God already do that in Genesis 9?

The answer is that, it's not about verse 9, it's about verse 10:

And whatever does not have fins and scales you shall not eat; it is unclean for you.
Deuteronomy 14:10

The prohibition related to unclean fish, begins by describing that which was already permitted.

And that's how every single dietary prohibition is written in the OT.

Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. Genesis 9:3

But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
Genesis 9:‭-4

2PhiloVoid · Oct 6, 2023

Aaron112 said:
He Says Clearly He Did.

When and Where did He do that precisely?

BeyondET · Oct 7, 2023

Diamond7 said:
You can make a rainbow with a prison. The color is in the light. The earth is dull and drab comparted to Heaven where we are told that the colors are so much brighter there. People like crystal and reinstone because it puts a little but of color in their life. They capture and reflect some of the color that is in the light. In Heaven sand will be made out of what precious stones here on Earth.

Little galaxies in some stones, quite amazing how they resemble such things.

BeyondET · Oct 7, 2023

Derf said:
The Greek word for rainbow is "iris". Sometimes it's translated "halo". The word used in the Noah story is translated "bow", like an archer's bow. Neither require it to be raining if God has other ways to produce it, but the gist of the Noah story is that it is what we call the rainbow, and is expected to be seen along with rain, so we know that He'll keep His promise relating to rain (not using it to destroy the whole earth again).
Iris was also used to mean the silvery halo seen around the moon when there are clouds. It is only used 2 times, both in Revelation, and neither with rain in the vision, as far as we can tell, though one time with clouds (Rev 10:1).

Fire rainbows are cool, certainly doesn't need to rain for these to show up.

BeyondET · Oct 7, 2023

Might not be a rainbow at all, but God hung His bow, no more arrows of water.

Psalm 7
12If one does not repent, God will sharpen His sword; He has bent and strung His bow.

13He has prepared His deadly weapons; He ordains His arrows with fire.

BeyondET · Oct 7, 2023

Derf said:
The Greek word for rainbow is "iris". Sometimes it's translated "halo". The word used in the Noah story is translated "bow", like an archer's bow.

Hung the archer's bow, made a covenant no more water arrows.

Interesting things of rainbows, it's an optical illusion, no one sees the same rainbow and its a full circle, the horizon prevents someone at ground level to see the complete circumference.

Aaron112 · Oct 7, 2023

Aaron112 said:
"Reigning" Yahweh Reigns !

Maybe for some, whether few or many,
this coming to be,
is a kind of Theistic.... ?

Derf · Oct 7, 2023

BeyondET said:
Might not be a rainbow at all, but God hung His bow, no more arrows of water.

Psalm 7
12If one does not repent, God will sharpen His sword; He has bent and strung His bow.

13He has prepared His deadly weapons; He ordains His arrows with fire.

God's words were definitely a reference to the rainbow.
Genesis 9:14 KJV — And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

Aaron112 · Oct 7, 2023

Derf said:
since we're no longer seeing what God showed Noah.

the bain/results/ of religion

BeyondET · Oct 7, 2023

Derf said:
God's words were definitely a reference to the rainbow.
Genesis 9:14 KJV — And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

Nice point to the half circle, archer's bow

Derf · Oct 8, 2023

Aaron112 said:
the bain/results/ of religion

I don't understand what you mean.

Theistic evolution and the nature of God

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