The violence in the OT

redleghunter · Dec 30, 2018

Cis.jd said:
Yup, you can see that disturbing reasoning from Varangian Christian.

I think, there is an explanation for these killings in the OT one of the best ones was from Jason.

What do you think of the Second Coming of Christ? When He comes to Judge as Conquering King? It will not be very nice. A very sanguine event.

Revelation 14: ESV

17Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for 1,600 stadia.c

Revelation 19: ESV

11Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.12His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13He is clothed in a robe dipped inb blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rulec them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.16On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, 18to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave,dboth small and great.” 19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presencee had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

Cis.jd · Dec 30, 2018

redleghunter said:
What do you think of the Second Coming of Christ? When He comes to Judge as Conquering King? It will not be very nice. A very sanguine event.

Revelation 14: ESV

17Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for 1,600 stadia.c

Revelation 19: ESV

11Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.12His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13He is clothed in a robe dipped inb blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rulec them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.16On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, 18to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave,dboth small and great.” 19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presencee had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

I'm not against that because I believe God is a good and just god who doesn't just kill people or life in general unless it is really deserved. I don't believe Jesus will "throw" all non-believers into the "fire" but people who are really unredeemable. We can't reason out a good and loving god through supporting the murder of infants and animals all because they were owned by evil people because that means judging others by the sins of their parents is already justified.

I think the explanation Jason and some others gave is the best one, that these tribes where contaminated biologically from the nephilim breeding. The problem right now is that the evidence and support for this isn't convincing enough for me to fully use this as a reason.

For those however who are passing this off as excusable all because of the authoritative status of God sound like Jihadists to me. If this is the mindset of christianity then there is no logical reason to blame anybody to think our religion to be evil.

Sparagmos · Dec 30, 2018

Roidecoeur78 said:
If God orders it, it cannot be evil. Though a mortal in error might call it that. However, if they're made aware of the evil they've done, I doubt that absolves them or that a person has the authority to erase their own debt, it just means they're aware of their unfaithfulness to the message. It is up to God whether they're given a chance to repent and be reconsecrated. I'm not sure how Catholics see it, but I've never run across the term "absolve" or "absolution" in scripture.

"They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for."1Peter2:8
“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”1Peter4:18

But how do you judge whether or not the order came from god? If a being of light appeared to you and said they were god, then ordered you to kill your children, wouldn’t you think this being was actually satan or some evil entity impersonating god? And when a terrorist or psychopath tells us that “god told me to do it,” don’t we all think that person either mistaken, lying, or being deceived by the devil?

Cis.jd · Dec 30, 2018

redleghunter said:
You ascribe to Marcionism?

I don't think she ascribes to Marcionism, i think she is just like myself. We can't just defend these OT killings by saying "It's God's authority, he can't be judged". Not only is that bad reasoning, and mirrors the same mentality as the murders who killed for god or their gods, but that shows holes in everything we believe about Jesus.

I'm asking that we should throw away that answer because it is a vile one. Because even if this god exists and all of the people here are right, why would anyone want worship that? Why look to someone like that for inspiration or for any form of positive way for living?

Sparagmos · Dec 30, 2018

redleghunter said:
You ascribe to Marcionism?

No, but I do view the OT similarly.

Sparagmos · Dec 30, 2018

Cis.jd said:
I don't think she ascribes to Marcionism, i think she is just like myself. We can't just defend these OT killings by saying "It's God's authority, he can't be judged". Not only is that bad reasoning, and mirrors the same mentality as the murders who killed for god or their gods, but that shows holes in everything we believe about Jesus.

I'm asking that we should throw away that answer because it is a vile one. Because even if this god exists and all of the people here are right, why would anyone want worship that? Why look to someone like that for inspiration or for any form of positive way for living?

I agree. And I go as far to say that any being calling themselves god that orders us to do bad things should be rebelled against. God put an awareness of good in our hearts (most of us, at least,) which is why we see that a vast majority of humans have never taken a life and generally try to preserve and nurture life. God gave us that awareness, necessary to sustain the world, and if a being comes along and tells us to do otherwise we should reject it. A “god” that does not live up to their own code of ethics but instead teaches authoritarianism and becomes angry when they are not worshipped is no god IMO, they are an imposter. How else can we discern who is the true god if not by the goodness of their words and actions, if not by their love and unselfishness?

Der Alte · Dec 30, 2018

Sparagmos said:
That is making an argument for doing the same thing to terrorist families. Yikes.

Who doing what to which terrorists and under what circumstances? Any scripture can be twisted by unscrupulous people to support their agendas. If I correctly understand you no, that does not justify any person to kill, harm, destroy any other person(s).

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 30, 2018

Cis.jd said:
Well, that defines your views. Good and Evil is only defined on what god says no to. So if God says murdering babies is evil - then it's evil but if God tells you to murder babies then it is now holy.

You are aware this is the same thinking of Isis and other Terrorists?

Yup, and you simply didn't understand that authority and rank doesn't change the fact that it is wrong. You were the first to give the king analogy and it failed. You sound like a biased devout. It's chirstians like you who give christianity a bad name and i wouldn't blame anybody for choosing not to be a christian if they are going to be associated by people who sees no wrong in murdering babies and animals. That is a religion of an evil god.

You described god to be a tyrant. Right now, you don't care about being good or doing good, you just care about being a servant towards an authority. Right now you are showing the same thought process a islamic terrorist.

You think what I am saying, or this "atheistic" programming is worse than you agreeing to infant murdering because god approved it?

You've confirmed what kind a person you are a gain. Your views are highly disturbing.

Ok, i'll answer you by giving you a question. If this god of yours told you to rape and then murder some 8 year old girl, do you consider it now a good/holy thing? i mean, god commanded it so he does have the authority and since he's ok with it that means it's now good, right?

You are the one who first brought in other rulers.

I realize you are playing the devils advocate here. And I agree with you that the level of Biblical literacy in today's culture is totally pathetic. Again I'll reiterate. That was the reason progressives removed it from our government run schools. To make the culture Biblically illiterate. We wouldn't be having this discussion if it were not so. Everyone would know the arguments being made via the militant atheist mindset are fallacious.
I put out a secondary reason on why God said to kill everything, including infants. Because the demons and the demonic activity was inside of those infants, and because the law was weak. Powerless to alter those infants destiny and what was in those infants was able to alter the destiny of ancient Israel, (and did.) The only way for them, at that time, at that juncture in history to rid the land of the demons was to kill everything including the children that they inhabited. Now I am sorry people don't understand spiritual things. But that is just one of many facets relating to the situation. Once knowledge increased which would take centuries. Once the devil became bound in certain area's. Once the power of the Gospel become known and used. Then the situations like that can be dealt with differently. But not back then.

I'll tell you a recent story to exhibit the point. My wife ran into her hairdresser. A young normal woman. She blurted out her story to my wife about what just happened to her. My wife is a believer and people are just drawn to her. She said she began having horrible physical problems. Things that are symptoms of brain tumors and other horrors. It put her out of work. She inadvertently visited a Pentecostal church. Went up for prayer and when they began to pray she completely lost control of herself. Attacked four grown men. Cursing and voices coming out of her. They cast a demon out of her. She says she literally rose 3 feet out of her chair and was screaming uncontrollably. Then it was over. She told the pastor she was going to get an MRI the next day. The pastor said fine go ahead. But they won't find anything. The physical problems you had were from a demon living inside of you, not a medical issue. She got the MRI, they couldn't find anything and she is complete healed. All the problems are gone.

Now I tell you this story to tell you this. She said she never knew there was a foreign entity living inside of her. There was never any indication of it until l she started having all these physical problems. There was never a time that she was aware some evil thing came to live inside her. I asked if she was ever involved in the occult. My wife didn't have time to ask but she said she saw her with her mom in the store and her mom had a traditional headdress on. Most likely some kind of eastern orthodox tradition of one of the Baltic or Mid East states. I said well that can do it. You see what happened to this girl was because her culture opened the door into her life of for a literal demon and demonic activity that would have destroyed her had she not happened to run into someone who, in Christ, could do something about it. And her culture is dominated by a Christian sect. ( As far as we know,) Imagine what the infants in the movie clip are like. Growing up eating human flesh from mass ritual sacrifices where they kill, roast and eat 20,000 people at a time. (That's the lovely Aztecs.) Where literally every single person has actual devils living inside of them. Where like John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb these children are filled with demons from their mothers womb? Shoot the demons are right there growing with them in the womb. they inhabit the same body.

And God had to navigate the madness of that world to slowly over centuries bring in light to eventually heal the nations involved in such insanity??????? So just to be able to use one people to bring that light into the world he had to exterminate, (those who deserved it anyway.) So that he could do what he did. There not being another way. And there is way more to this story of why.

Sparagmos · Dec 30, 2018

devin553344 said:
So then only the righteous have the right to kill in your interpretation? I simply don't believe that. Jesus was without sin and could have then stoned her to death on behalf of the people. But somehow that just sounds ridiculous to think of Jesus stoning someone to death. After all he went about healing and forgiving sins and raising from the dead. It seems out of character.

Can you quote scripture please on where it says Jesus the Christ will kill billions of people. Because I think you might be confusing Jesus with someone else.

Jesus showed us that there is no more powerful weapon against evil than love. And we see that in the world today. Christian churches/denominations that put love and service first are growing, and churches that preach fire and brimstone and separation are shrinking.

Roidecoeur78 · Dec 30, 2018

Sparagmos said:
But how do you judge whether or not the order came from god? If a being of light appeared to you and said they were god, then ordered you to kill your children, wouldn’t you think this being was actually satan or some evil entity impersonating god? And when a terrorist or psychopath tells us that “god told me to do it,” don’t we all think that person either mistaken, lying, or being deceived by the devil?

Yes, deception is perhaps not only part of Satan's game, maybe most or all of it.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. . . . .
1 Corinthians 6:9 . . . Don’t be deceived. . . .
1 Corinthians 15:33 Don’t be deceived! . . .
Galatians 6:3 For if a man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Galatians 6:7 Don’t be deceived . . .
James 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my beloved brothers.
James 1:22 But obey God’s word. Do not just listen to it. If you just listen to it, you fool yourselves.
James 1:26 If anyone among you thinks himself to be religious while he doesn’t bridle his tongue, but deceives his heart, . . .
1 John 1:8 Do we say, ‘We have no wrong ways’? Then we are fooling ourselves, and we do not know what is true
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one lead you astray. . . .
1 John 4:1 Beloved, don’t believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don’t confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. . . .

There are many more verses warning you not to be deceived, so it evidently is a common thing and a good idea for you to guard against. I too know firsthand that both self-deception, and even willingly believing the lie of someone else, to get what I wanted at the time have led to my being unfaithful. The Holy Spirit will not suggest to anyone that doing something sinful, selfish, carnal, or outright evil is okay or allowable(even just once); if such a messenger as suggests that sort of thing visits you, or anyone you may know, it is not to be believed.

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 30, 2018

Sparagmos said:
But how do you judge whether or not the order came from god? If a being of light appeared to you and said they were god, then ordered you to kill your children, wouldn’t you think this being was actually satan or some evil entity impersonating god? And when a terrorist or psychopath tells us that “god told me to do it,” don’t we all think that person either mistaken, lying, or being deceived by the devil?

It's why we have the Bible. So we can know its not God. Even if it is an angel i great radiant splendor who tells us.

Cis.jd · Dec 30, 2018

Der Alter said:
Who doing what to which terrorists and under what circumstances? Any scripture can be twisted by unscrupulous people to support their agendas. If I correctly understand you no, that does not justify any person to kill, harm, destroy any other person(s).

If you read some of the replies here there are people saying killing infants isn't evil because god said to do it.

Sparagmos said:
I agree. And I go as far to say that any being calling themselves god that orders us to do bad things should be rebelled against. God put an awareness of good in our hearts (most of us, at least,) which is why we see that a vast majority of humans have never taken a life and generally try to preserve and nurture life. God gave us that awareness, necessary to sustain the world, and if a being comes along and tells us to do otherwise we should reject it. A “god” that does not live up to their own code of ethics but instead teaches authoritarianism and becomes angry when they are not worshipped is no god IMO, they are an imposter. How else can we discern who is the true god if not by the goodness of their words and actions, if not by their love and unselfishness?

Agreed. One reason why I believe there is a deeper/better explanation of this is based off an old thread of mine as to why god allowed animal sacrifice and meat consumption.

It was interesting to see that the God also loves animals as well, and regardless of allowing the consumption of meat, he appears to have never liked it. He only allows it due to the laws of nature (survival) in where he can no longer provide for us the way as intended during the Garden because of sin. So, regardless of God allowing it he gave all these rules and restrictions in regards to how animals are going to be used for our needs. Most of the banned meats where animals with high intelligence, then there were rules about how the animal had to be slain fast.. it was banned to eat an animal that was still alive. God made rules that involved the animal feeling less pain as possible. So, we can see the humanity of God in regards to his creation.. then we have this, the ordering of butchering children, animals, and other innocents in that tribe. Something does not add up.

It's feeble minded and disturbing to just say "well, he's god so it's ok to do that".

Sparagmos · Dec 30, 2018

Varangian Christian said:
The analogy was to show that if even an earthly king is not subject to the laws placed on his people then surely God is not subject to His commandments for His people. If you do not understand that then our discussion will be fruitless.

How am I forced to support tyrants? They are beholden to the law of God which I follow. In this thread you are seeking to judge God, who is beholden to nothing and no one.

So much for not debating like an atheist, now God is literally Hitler, eh?

And yes, none of those people were guilty of murder under their own laws. God would condemn them, but that is beside the point as we are debating whether you can condemn God who is not subservient to any law.

Are you saying that God is not your ruler and lawmaker? Are you asserting that God is not the giver of morality and its absolute standard? Are you condemning the kings and prophets of the Old Testament and which are to come as murderers? Who are you to judge God!

Your pride repulses me.

Yes it would, if all those things were ordered by God, and I have no problem admitting that. Deus Vult!

Are you condemning king David, Moses, Elijah and all the other great warriors of our God? Are you calling them evil?

What I see here is someone who professes Christianity but is atheist in mind. Repent and beware lest in the foolishness of your mind you be drawn away from God.

You are also debating in a completely dishonest manner. Go back to my earlier post and engage with all that I said rather than ignoring it. Your heathen rationalism is anathema to a mind of faith.

Your ad hominem reaction to this earnest seeker of truth is more likely to push him or her towards atheism. You are responding with authoritarianism and proving their points.

My question for you is: if we cannot judge god, how do we know who the true god is? There are many religions claiming their god is the one god - without applying judgement how do we know which is the true god?

Sparagmos · Dec 30, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Actually, the Bible says so. Leviticus 18:1-5 tells Israel to not partake of the pagan ways of Egypt. Then Leviticus 18:6-23 talks about sexual immorality like incest and bestiality. Then Leviticus 18:24-25 and Leviticus 18:27 says that the pagan nations have defiled themselves and have done of these abominations.

Logic dictates that if the pagan nations around them had partaken in incest and bestiality, they would naturally have sexual diseases. In fact, the word “defiled” in Leviticus 18 implies that.

How would an infant have an STD and are you saying people with STD’s should be eliminated?

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 30, 2018

redleghunter said:
What do you think of the Second Coming of Christ? When He comes to Judge as Conquering King? It will not be very nice. A very sanguine event.

Revelation 14: ESV

17Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for 1,600 stadia.c

Revelation 19: ESV

11Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.12His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13He is clothed in a robe dipped inb blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rulec them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.16On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, 18to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave,dboth small and great.” 19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presencee had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

90% of the judgement of God is the natural causes and effects of doing good or evil. In the purposefully limited light of the OT it is spoken of as God directly doing it. As Good example is in the OT sickness and disease is always spoken of as sent directly by God. In the NT it says Jesus healed all who were oppressed by the devil. Meaning sickness and disease is of the devil and an effect of a sinful world. We know this as the laws of nature and natures God. They were not wholly incorrect in saying the sickness and disease were from God because he created the world to operate this way. Its just they were incorrect in their apprehension that he was sending lighting bots from heaven of cancer and the boils and the plague etc etc. Its more like they were opening the door wide-open to Satanic activity that would kill, steal and destroy them. (Which why you see the left in such rebellion agsint nature itself. It is rebellion agsint God and its effects are chaos and tumult. Something that favors them politically.)

So to we see the exact same language. the exact same phrases and illustrations you just posted from Revelation in prophecy agsint OT nations that happened in the OT and was recorded as fulfilled in the OT. Yet we see look back and clearly see the "punishment" was temporal; administered by other nations and above all. Was far more cause and effect than God directly supernaturally sending it. Same thing in Revelation.

Der Alte · Dec 30, 2018

Cis.jd said:
If you read some of the replies here there are people saying killing infants isn't evil because god said to do it.

I have already stated my opinion on this so I am not interested in what other people say or think.

CJ said:
begin

<CJ>Agreed. One reason why I believe there is a deeper/better explanation of this is based off an old thread of mine as to why god allowed animal sacrifice and meat consumption.[Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA]
It was interesting to see that the God also loves animals as well, and regardless of allowing the consumption of meat, he appears to have never liked it. [Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA]
He only allows it due to the laws of nature (survival) in where he can no longer provide for us the way as intended during the Garden because of sin.[Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA]
So, regardless of God allowing it he gave all these rules and restrictions in regards to how animals are going to be used for our needs. Most of the banned meats where animals with high intelligence,[Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA] then there were rules about how the animal had to be slain fast.
. it was banned to eat an animal that was still alive. God made rules that involved the animal feeling less pain as possible. So, we can see the humanity of God in regards to his creation.. then we have this, the ordering of butchering children, animals, and other innocents in that tribe. Something does not add up.[Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA]
It's feeble minded and disturbing to just say "well, he's god so it's ok to do that".[Unsupported irrelevant opinion, DA][/QUOTE]

redleghunter · Dec 30, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
90% of the judgement of God is the natural causes and effects of doing good or evil. In the purposefully limited light of the OT it is spoken of as God directly doing it. As Good example is in the OT sickness and disease is always spoken of as sent directly by God. In the NT it says Jesus healed all who were oppressed by the devil. Meaning sickness and disease is of the devil and an effect of a sinful world. We know this as the laws of nature and natures God. They were not wholly incorrect in saying the sickness and disease were from God because he created the world to operate this way. Its just they were incorrect in their apprehension that he was sending lighting bots from heaven of cancer and the boils and the plague etc etc. Its more like they were opening the door wide-open to Satanic activity that would kill, steal and destroy them. (Which why you see the left in such rebellion agsint nature itself. It is rebellion agsint God and its effects are chaos and tumult. Something that favors them politically.)

So to we see the exact same language. the exact same phrases and illustrations you just posted from Revelation in prophecy agsint OT nations that happened in the OT and was recorded as fulfilled in the OT. Yet we see look back and clearly see the "punishment" was temporal; administered by other nations and above all. Was far more cause and effect than God directly supernaturally sending it. Same thing in Revelation.

Yet the text clearly shows the wrath of God poured out.

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 30, 2018

redleghunter said:
Yet the text clearly shows the wrath of God poured out.

Yes it is the wrath of God. It was portrayed as such in the OT also. Yet it was temporal and “administered” by other nations. It is the natural results of wickedness.

redleghunter · Dec 30, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
Yes it is the wrath of God. It was portrayed as such in the OT also. Yet it was temporal and “administered” by other nations. It is the natural results of wickedness.

The judgment in Revelation is against the nations. They are not carrying it out.

Cis.jd · Dec 30, 2018

Der Alter said:
<CJ>Agreed. One reason why I believe there is a deeper/better explanation of this is based off an old thread of mine as to why god allowed animal sacrifice and meat consumption.[Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA]
It was interesting to see that the God also loves animals as well, and regardless of allowing the consumption of meat, he appears to have never liked it. [Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA]
He only allows it due to the laws of nature (survival) in where he can no longer provide for us the way as intended during the Garden because of sin.[Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA]
So, regardless of God allowing it he gave all these rules and restrictions in regards to how animals are going to be used for our needs. Most of the banned meats where animals with high intelligence,[Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA] then there were rules about how the animal had to be slain fast.
. it was banned to eat an animal that was still alive. God made rules that involved the animal feeling less pain as possible. So, we can see the humanity of God in regards to his creation.. then we have this, the ordering of butchering children, animals, and other innocents in that tribe. Something does not add up.[Unsupported irrelevant personal opinion, DA]
It's feeble minded and disturbing to just say "well, he's god so it's ok to do that".[Unsupported irrelevant opinion, DA]

[/QUOTE]
It would be irrelevant if it was in reply to you. Nevertheless, we can see this as a basis of God being good so it really it doesn't add up to him just commanding killing of babies because he is god therefore anything "i say is now good".

The violence in the OT

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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Thank You Jesus!

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