The Two Differences

Gunny · May 20, 2002

What makes Christianity different and unique from all other belief systems?

1. All belief systems apart from Christianity are works based. The individual's works are the way they receive favor from whatever they believe their god to be.

2. All belief systems are devoid of One such as Jesus Christ who made the claims He made about Himself.
i.e. "I am the way, the truth and the life.", "I and the Father are One." Christianity alone, has a Savior.

Christianity states that man can not save Himself nor can he become his own savior.

In Christ
James

Freodin · May 20, 2002

Originally posted by gunnysgt
What makes Christianity different and unique from all other belief systems?

1. All belief systems apart from Christianity are works based. The individual's works are the way they receive favor from whatever they believe their god to be.

2. All belief systems are devoid of One such as Jesus Christ who made the claims He made about Himself.
i.e. "I am the way, the truth and the life.", "I and the Father are One." Christianity alone, has a Savior.

Christianity states that man can not save Himself nor can he become his own savior.

In Christ
James

I have to disagree.

1. Is only true in a particular sense. There are works-based beliefs in Christianity - there are faith-based beliefs in other religions.

2. Is definitly wrong. Mithras and Osiris are the most famous saviour figures from ancient religions, and I believe Krishna is a saviour model in hinduism (right?).

berean_315 · May 20, 2002

Good observations gunnysgt. See below for some quotes that agree with your observations.

Since Buddhists do not believe in revelations of a divine being Buddhism does not claim the monopoly of truth and does not condemn any other religion. But Buddhism recognizes the infinite latent possibilities of man and teaches that man can gain deliverance from suffering by his own efforts independent of divine help or mediating priests . (Nerada Thera, Buddhism in a Nutshell )

The Buddha was a human being. As a man he was born, as a man he lived, and as a man his life came to an end. Though a human being, he became an extraordinary man (acchariya manussa), but he never arrogated to himself divinity. The Buddha laid stress on this important point and left no room whatever for anyone to fall into the error of thinking that he was an immortal divine being. (Nerada Thera, Buddhism in a Nutshell )

Another aspect of Buddhist humanism is that it makes an individual the master of his own destiny . On his deathbed when asked by his followers as to whom they should follow when he was gone, the Buddha replied: "Be ye a lamp (dîpa) unto yourselves; work out your own salvation with diligence ". The Pali word dîpa also means an island, and the Buddha's final exhortation could also be rendered as "Be ye an island unto yourselves..." etc. In either case the fundamental idea is that of self-reliance rather than reliance on an external agency. (Victor Gunesakara, Basic Buddhism

The results of karma (deeds) cannot be obliterated just by accepting Jesus or Mohammed / Allah. One has to work towards personal salvation . (Basics of Hinduism; online posting )

In Islam, salvation is earned through belief and righteous deeds . (Understanding Islam; online posting )

Mendeh · May 25, 2002

1. All belief systems apart from Christianity are works based. The individual's works are the way they receive favor from whatever they believe their god to be.

I don't think this is quite accurate. If you look at ancient religions existing contemporarily with Christianity, you see that the idea of the gods cleansing you for your sins once you're penitent exists within them.
The Metamorphoses, by Ovid, shows plenty of examples of divine mercy cleansing errant humans for their sins (ex. Bacchus forgiving Midas for badly choosing his reward for returning Silenus, Peleus being purified of the murder he committed). And before Protestantism began to develop, the idea that God was bound to reward virtuous behaviour had found its way into Christianity (the Doctrine of Works). What's different about some sects of Christianity today is that they utterly reject the idea of salvation through works. But the idea that salvation could be attained through other measures than virtuous deeds is found elsewhere as well.

2. All belief systems are devoid of One such as Jesus Christ who made the claims He made about Himself.

Nope. Phrases such as 'the way,' 'the truth', and 'the light' are found in different religions as well. Working from the ancient religion with which I am most familiar, that of Ancient Egypt, the title 'maat' frequently accompanies gods, which is analogous to 'the truth'; 'the light' is a common enough descriptor as well of various gods, (Horus, I think, certainly the Aten), and seeing gods as the only path to salvation ('the way') I'd think would be a common enough property of any cultic god, not just Jesus.

Christianity states that man can not save Himself nor can he become his own savior.

As far as I know, this is exactly the same reasoning that less reputable cults, such as Scientology, employ, in order to gain converts.

Blessed-one · May 26, 2002

In Christianity, faith and work cannot be separated, so it's not a faith based or work based belief.
However much work we do, it cannot gain us entry into God's Kingdom if we did not believe in Him. If we had faith in Him yet did nothing according to His will and kept living in a sinful life, then we're not God's children.
How do you demonstrate that your faith (Christianity) is true? by work.
Faith goes hand in hand with work.

Gunny · May 26, 2002

Works/fruit is the by product of the gift of faith which is given by God so that no man should boast.

James

Mendeh · May 27, 2002

Do you agree with Blessed-one, gunnysgt, who seems to be saying that good works are the evidence of good faith in God? It doesn't seem to be a radical departure from the doctrine of works, because good works are still the evidence for the faith required for admission to heaven.

In addition, couldn't it be argued that Christianity is does fundamentally preach works-based salvation; it's just that the works it regards as worthy of salvation are very different from most other religions; rather than doing good things to others, you concentrate on doing good things for yourself and praying to God for forgiveness.

Gunny · May 27, 2002

Bearing fruit=good works, which are the demonstration of the individual that indeed has been saved.

GySgt
James

Mendeh · May 27, 2002

So really, we could say that Christianity has added a layer between 'good works' and 'heaven'. From the 'usual' pattern like:

[GOOD WORKS]-->[HEAVEN]

is added:

[GOOD WORKS]-->[PROOF OF ACCEPTING GOD PROPERLY]-->[HEAVEN]

Is this a fair way of describing the situation?

LouisBooth · May 28, 2002

"there are faith-based beliefs in other religions. "

This is very much true. I'd like to be shown otherwise...

Men..if you're going to cite something, give me a holy book to look it up in and in what religion. ALL other major religions REQURE works, buddism, hinduism, taoism, Islam, etc.

seebs · May 28, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
ALL other major religions REQURE works, buddism, hinduism, taoism, Islam, etc.

There are a number of branches of Buddhism, but none of the ones I know anything about "require" works; in the end, if you achieve enlightenment, you're done, and it doesn't matter what you did or will do.

LouisBooth · May 28, 2002

"if you achieve enlightenment, you're done, "

Umm..you just proved yourself wrong seebs. achieve, ie you have to work for it.

elephanticity · May 28, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"there are faith-based beliefs in other religions. "

This is very much true. I'd like to be shown otherwise...

Men..if you're going to cite something, give me a holy book to look it up in and in what religion. ALL other major religions REQURE works, buddism, hinduism, taoism, Islam, etc.

Um, the triple rede? It doesn't require works, but warns of consequence of action.

The purpose of living, in many religions that promote reincarnation, is to learn. Enlightenment is the goal, 'works' is just something you do. Those that have achieved buddhahood may stick around, to teach those that have not passed beyond this level, but they have achieved enlightenment before they perform such works.

elephanticity · May 28, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"if you achieve enlightenment, you're done, "

Umm..you just proved yourself wrong seebs. achieve, ie you have to work for it.

I think you're confusing terms....I don't think 'good works' isjust effort, is it?

And the effort for enlightenment is rather self-interested.

I thought the works/faith thing was faith in God, and works for the benefit of fellow man...

LouisBooth · May 28, 2002

"The purpose of living, in many religions that promote reincarnation, is to learn"
Ahh..aquireing knowledge, very much a work.

"I thought the works/faith thing was faith in God, and works for the benefit of fellow man..."

Historical christianity claims that its faith alone in God. Through faith by his grace you are saved. By no work of your own. All other religions say you have to take steps to be saved, reach nirvina, become one with the universe, etc. Only Christianity says no works.

elephanticity · May 28, 2002

would you say that it takes no work to live by the commandments? Just believe in God and obey the laws?

LouisBooth · May 28, 2002

"would you say that it takes no work to live by the commandments? Just believe in God and obey the laws?
"

Fortunalty that's AFTER you are saved. Its a post-salvation thing called sanctificaiton.

Ray K · May 29, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"there are faith-based beliefs in other religions. "

This is very much true. I'd like to be shown otherwise...

Men..if you're going to cite something, give me a holy book to look it up in and in what religion. ALL other major religions REQUIRE works, buddism, hinduism, taoism, Islam, etc.

To their credit.

What kind of logic twists "we don't require you to do good works" into a positive thing?

The fact that Christianity does not require good works weakens its case as a source of good morals.

TheBear · May 29, 2002

Originally posted by gunnysgt
What makes Christianity different and unique from all other belief systems?

1. All belief systems apart from Christianity are works based. The individual's works are the way they receive favor from whatever they believe their god to be.

2. All belief systems are devoid of One such as Jesus Christ who made the claims He made about Himself.
i.e. "I am the way, the truth and the life.", "I and the Father are One." Christianity alone, has a Savior.

Christianity states that man can not save Himself nor can he become his own savior.

In Christ
James

Excellent post, James!

And, Semper Fi from a former Marine.

John

Blessed-one · May 29, 2002

rather than doing good things to others, you concentrate on doing good things for yourself and praying to God for forgiveness.

what's doing good things for yourself? Jesus died on the cross for us, He did it for others. Many of the apostles went into jail, they did it for us. They could've sit and preached in a safe distance and prayed and did nothing, but instead they went into the midst of unbelievers and risked their own lives. No, i don't agree that Christians only do good things for ourselves, we're commanded to do good things in the world.

Bearing fruit=good works, which are the demonstration of the individual that indeed has been saved.

yep... good works come from faith, but for those who only do good works with a wrong motive, eg. seeking to please men instead of God, don't think they're saved.

So really, we could say that Christianity has added a layer between 'good works' and 'heaven'. From the 'usual' pattern like:

[GOOD WORKS]-->[HEAVEN]

is added:

[GOOD WORKS]-->[PROOF OF ACCEPTING GOD PROPERLY]-->[HEAVEN]

Is this a fair way of describing the situation?

nope, good works with a wrong motive as "proof" will never gain a person's salvation, unless one is humbled before God, which brings us back to the issue of faith.
Faith being that we believe only Jesus can wash us clean of our sins, it is after the first step of faith been taken do we show our good works.
faith ---> salvation righteous ---> works demonstrate salvation rigteous.

the action itself doesn't make one righteous (in a sense, saved), but the good action, coupled with faith, demonstrate the person to be saved.
such as Rahab, she demonstrated her righteousness by letting the spies go (refer back to James chapter 2).

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