The Truth about Tongues - Once and for All

SavedByGrace3 · Mar 26, 2003

Today at 01:16 PM MissytheButterfly said this in Post #40

This is indeed a rare occassion for me to agree with Br. Max but I must say I couldn't have stated his words better on my own. He is absolutely correct in saying that to many people and churches base their "salvation" upon the gift of tongues.

Hi missy...
Can you name just a few of these many churches?

Many churches believe if you don't exhibit speaking in tongues after immersion baptism one isn't saved. Which is obviously ridiculous since the bible does state not everyone will have the gift and it doesn't say salvation or lack of it is base on one's ability to speak in tongues.

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Again. please specify just a dozen of so of these many churches. I am curious. I have been a christian for 30+ years, have been to more churches that I can remember... and I have never found one of these "many" churches of which you speak.

I also agree with Br. Max, if you have it.. SO WHAT ? Thank God for it and move on.. there are tons of gifts that God gives. Be thankful for it, don't gloat and use it for his glory. And I am not sorry in saying this but I have actually seen with my own two eyes professed Christians judging and actually telling someone they are going to hell because they don't speak in tongues, that they haven't "left" the world behind, and even that that person's salvation is not valid.

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Is this person a member of one of these many chruches. Is this a denomination... or some independent group.

And I have to say right on Br. Max.. we have no right to take pride in gifts. That's what I like about the Apostle Paul.. he never bragged but's it's obvious he was a true man of God that could truthfully have had bragging rights. I say some should take a lesson from his example..

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Actually Paul got in a lot of trouble because of pride and even had a demon following him around harrassing him because of it. But that is another issue.
Anyway, if you can... please get together with Max and work up short list out of the many churches that teach these things. A dozen should do. Should be easy to put together since there are so many.

Thanks!

SpiritPsalmist · Mar 26, 2003

Today at 03:14 PM hobart schmedly said this in Post #41
please specify just a dozen of so of these many churches. I am curious. I have been a christian for 30+ years, have been to more churches that I can remember... and I have never found one of these "many" churches of which you speak. 

My grandparents, whom I spent most of my early years with, and from whom I learned about Jesus, and accepted Him into my heart somewhere around 3 or 4 years old,  were Penticostal Church of God and I never heard such teaching. 

My parents began attending  a Penticostal Holiness church when I was around 8 and I never heard the teaching there.

When I was 11 we started attending the Assembly's of God, and they never taught it either. 

The current church, which is non-denominational and we speak in tongues, interpret tongues, prophesy, heal, cast out demons, etc, and I have never heard this teaching.

I also am curious as to what churches these are that teach this.

SavedByGrace3 · Mar 26, 2003

Today at 03:38 PM Quaffer said this in Post #42

I also am curious as to what churches these are that teach this.

I too have been in these churches for many years... PCOG, AOG, COG, WOF, many more.... independants too.

I am curious too Quaffie.

Especially since there are so "many"...

I mean "many" is a relative term that takes into consideration the total number in a group.

10 in a million would not be many. But 10 in a dozen would be considered many. So when someone says "many" churches and believers promote this teaching, I would have to assume they mean most, or at least a majority.
But as you have said, and I concur, I have never met any church that teaches this... and I honestly do not even recall a single individual that does either. And I have been out here for many years teaching and learning in these very churches. If I had run up on one, I know myself well enough that I surely would remember and likely would have taken issue. But I recall none.

But I am eager to hear the responses.
Perhaps Missy and Max can supply some websites where they have seen these things being said. I am curious as to the reasoning that promotes this teaching.

Kirisutokyoo-shinja · Mar 26, 2003

I am pentocostal and I have also never experienced or heard of such teachings. The bible defines us saved by grace and believing in Christ Jesus. (aka...which alots the grace to us) ok different subject, but yes.
No such thing as a required attribute for salvation meaning one must speak in tongues.

Gordi · Mar 26, 2003

Well I have only had this from one movement.  The Revival Fellowship.

Check this page out....   http://www.trf.org.au/article7.asp

Gordi · Mar 26, 2003

It's the fourth point down.

Andrew · Mar 26, 2003

In Singapore, I only know of one church that teaches that. It's called True Jesus Church.
I came to know abt this church abt 10 years back when I was studying in the Uni. I was staying in the hostel and next door to me was this guy from that church. There was another guy from another block who was from the same church.

They preached to me and their main thrust was this: to be saved you must have the Holy Spirit. To know that you have the Holy Spirit, you must be able to speak in tongues. IOW no tongues, no salvation.

They really got me confused (they were really well-versed in their Bible and threw all sorts of scriptures to prove their point). At that time I was very much a carnal Christian and it didnt really bother me that I "wasnt saved yet bcos I couldnt speak in tongues".

Somehow I knew I was already saved. but it did get me a lot more curious about tongues. Strangely, I never hated tongues or ppl who spoke in tongues becos of this encounter, which lasted some time. In fact, it made me desire tongues more than ever, just that I didnt know then how to receive.

Well, today, it's no more a mystery to me. I'm glad I did not throw out the baby with the bathwater!

SpiritPsalmist · Mar 27, 2003

Yesterday at 08:55 PM Gordi said this in Post #45

Well I have only had this from one movement.  The Revival Fellowship.

Check this page out....   http://www.trf.org.au/article7.asp

Gordi,

Have you conversed with these people? 

I read the part in the section "What Must I Do To Be Saved", under "The Following Steps Give Assurance Of Eternal Life", at point #3 "Receive The Holy Spirit".

You are promised a wonderful experience with your Saviour.

"He will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire ..." (Matt 3:11 KJV).

You are encouraged to receive this power. (Luke 11:9-13). By reading and believing the many accounts of the Holy Spirit in the early Church, you will find great faith to claim this experience. You will 'speak in tongues' as promised to all believers (Mark 16:17).

They do seem to be saying you are assured of your salvation by speaking in tongues and that I believe is wrong.  Obviously, since Satan is a fallen angel, he can even speak in tongues of men and angels. 

Thanks Gordi,

Quaffer

Gordi · Mar 27, 2003

Underneath the where it says  What We Believe

Beside the forth dot down it says:

We believe we are baptised into the Body of Christ (the church) throught the Holy Spirit, with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.

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They don't accept that you have recieved the Holy Spirit unless you speak in tongues.

That's what they said their belief is to me.

SpiritPsalmist · Mar 27, 2003

Today at 01:08 PM Gordi said this in Post #49

Underneath the where it says  What We Believe

Beside the forth dot down it says:

We believe we are baptised into the Body of Christ (the church) throught the Holy Spirit, with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.

-------------------------------------

They don't accept that you have recieved the Holy Spirit unless you speak in tongues.

That's what they said their belief is to me.

Sorry Gordi,

Your post came in as I was revising mine. 

 

Gordi · Mar 27, 2003

No problem quaffer

SavedByGrace3 · Mar 27, 2003

Yesterday at 08:55 PM Gordi said this in Post #45

Well I have only had this from one movement.  The Revival Fellowship.

Check this page out....   http://www.trf.org.au/article7.asp

Hi Gordi,
I looked over this site and really was not sure where it said one had to speak in tongues to be saved.
I could be misreading it.
Perhaps people are just putting different meaning to the same words.

SpiritPsalmist · Mar 27, 2003

Today at 01:28 PM hobart schmedly said this in Post #52

Hi Gordi,
I looked over this site and really was not sure where it said one had to speak in tongues to be saved.
I could be misreading it.
Perhaps people are just putting different meaning to the same words.

Hobart,

I read over it too and had the same initial reaction, however, they do seem to be saying you are not filled with the spirit unless you speak in tongues, and if you are not filled with the Spirit, then you are not saved. 

That seemed to be the way it came across to me anyway.

SavedByGrace3 · Mar 27, 2003

Underneath the where it says What We Believe

Beside the forth dot down it says:

We believe we are baptised into the Body of Christ (the church) throught the Holy Spirit, with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.

-------------------------------------

They don't accept that you have recieved the Holy Spirit unless you speak in tongues.

That's what they said their belief is to me.

There is an understanding in these groups that the Holy Spirit is something separate from the new birth. They(like many) believe you receive the spirit of Christ when you are born again, and you receive the Holy Spirit also. But you are baptised in the Holy Spirit as a separate action after this.
They are not saying that you need to speak in tongues to be saved. They are simply saying that if you are baptised in the Holy Spirit, you will have the bible evidence of speaking in tongues. Separate issue all together.
There are people who are saved for many years who never speak in tongues.
This is all a matter of interpretation....
But they are not intending to say you have to speak in tongues to be saved.

Gordi · Mar 27, 2003

Well thats funny cause the Holy Spirit has already worked in me and healed me and I have not spoken in tongues.

They don't believe you're a proper Christian unless you are spirit filled, and they said to me that if you are a spirit filled Christian you will speak in tongues as biblical evidence.

Trust me I attended some of their meetings and they expressed this viewpoint quite clearly.

SpiritPsalmist · Mar 27, 2003

I just e-mailed them and asked them.

Here's how I asked the question:

Do you believe that if one is saved, they will speak in tongues? In other words. . .if one does not speak in tongues, does that mean they are NOT saved?

I'll let you know the response I get.

Gordi · Mar 27, 2003

Ok should be interesting

Miyu · Mar 27, 2003

I used to attend a United Pentecostal Church...they teach that you must speak in tongues to be saved...they also teach that you must be baptized by immersion in the name of Jesus to be saved and deny the trinity.

Most other pentecostal denominations do not believe these things and consider the UPC a cult.

conceived in fire · Mar 27, 2003

if that were true...im not saved and probably never will be...heh

Miyu · Mar 27, 2003

Don't be so sure...if a little girl can get you to clap during the worship service and drink from a partiotic coffee cup...well...anything is possible.

The Truth about Tongues - Once and for All

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