The Tree of Wisdom

juvenissun · May 28, 2008

Willtor said:
If the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is not really the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but actually the Tree of God's Wisdom, then how is it that we still needed God's Wisdom Incarnate? It seems as though God has made every provision to offer His Wisdom freely. How was it then that Adam was forbidden?

This is the same question as one frequently asked: Why didn't God just create a being who is wise and obeying? If God let Adam eat the fruit of wisdom and then the fruit of life. It would be equal to the creation of such being.

God wants us, who are wise, but "choose" to obey.

As far as the nature of wisdom we have, I am not trying to qualify it. And I am not saying we have ALL the wisdom of God (most likely we don't). But we share the kind of wisdom which is critical and only belongs to God, including the ability of telling good from evil. This kind of wisdom is independent from, but could be enhanced by, the knowledge we developed on earth. Our knowledge is developed based on part of wisdom Adam got, which I call it logic.

Willtor · May 29, 2008

juvenissun said:
This is the same question as one frequently asked: Why didn't God just create a being who is wise and obeying? If God let Adam eat the fruit of wisdom and then the fruit of life. It would be equal to the creation of such being.

God wants us, who are wise, but "choose" to obey.

As far as the nature of wisdom we have, I am not trying to qualify it. And I am not saying we have ALL the wisdom of God (most likely we don't). But we share the kind of wisdom which is critical and only belongs to God, including the ability of telling good from evil. This kind of wisdom is independent from, but could be enhanced by, the knowledge we developed on earth. Our knowledge is developed based on part of wisdom Adam got, which I call it logic.

Okay, so now it's gone from "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" (as in the text) to "The Tree of Wisdom" to "The Tree of Logic"?

juvenissun · May 29, 2008

Willtor said:
Okay, so now it's gone from "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" (as in the text) to "The Tree of Wisdom" to "The Tree of Logic"?

See, the detail of the reasoning is: what does it take to tell good and evil? Be able to tell good from evil is the end result and is the goal. But in order to do that, there is a content and also a process. Logic is a build-in part of the package. It is a necessary ingredient. But it won't do the job on itself.

I don't think God put all of His wisdom in the fruit. But He put enough in there so when Adam and Eve ate it, it would give their heirs necessary tools to choose to believe and to resist satan.

It is amazing to see that atheists have this wisdom and logic ability too. However, for some reason (can't say what), they simply choose not to believe.

Benoni · May 29, 2008

The Bible is not literal; it is spiritual, full of spiritual symbolisms; I have said for many years that the Book of Revelation is the most spiritual Book in the Bible; well the Book of Genesis comes in a close second. Notice over and over in the creation story the quote and it was good, or it was very good. God created the tree of Good and Evil. The purposes of God are always good, even though there will be some evil, even God uses evil to produce what is very good. Just like a Drill sergeant makes a recruit do push ups; it hurts, it is not easy, it is a terrible ordeal at times; but look at the results in the end of the process.

God placed the Tree of Life, and the Tree of Good and Evil in mist of the Garden; there were other trees, the fig tree, God set Adam up for the fall. Without the fall there would be no processing, and no spiritual growth. Talk about Adam who is a son of God would be nothing but a puppet, a robot if there was no plan for the fall; he would have no spiritual maturity unless he was lowered to the state of vanity.

Notice the trees were in the mist of the garden; what in your mist. The Christ with in, And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks, and in the midst of the
seven golden candlesticks one like unto the Son of man" (Rev. 1:12-13).

The candlestick realm is the church realm! THATS WHERE THE MESSAGE IS!

The message is not out there, not from Christ in some far-off heaven somewhere,not from an angel from heaven, not from Christ outside of us. The message is within: The voice of the Son of God is the voice in the churches, within those in the churches who are walking in the Spirit and seeing and hearing by the Spirit. Werent nearly all of us in the churches when first we heard the Voice? Its among us! Its in our midst! The kingdom of God is within you! The Spirit of the Son is within you! God dwelleth in
you! The Holy Ghost is within you! The word of Christ dwelleth richly in you! The anointing abideth within you! The voice of the Son of God is heard from within!

juvenissun · May 29, 2008

Benoni said:
The Bible is not literal; it is spiritual, full of spiritual symbolisms; I have said for many years that the Book of Revelation is the most spiritual Book in the Bible; well the Book of Genesis comes in a close second. Notice over and over in the creation story the quote and it was good, or it was very good. God created the tree of Good and Evil. The purposes of God are always good, even though there will be some evil, even God uses evil to produce what is very good. Just like a Drill sergeant makes a recruit do push ups; it hurts, it is not easy, it is a terrible ordeal at times; but look at the results in the end of the process.

Click to expand...

Do not agree. God will not USE evil. In the example of Job, God does not USE satan to test Job. Satan wanted to do that. God just allows it. Don't forget there is satan in the Garden too. he has a part on everything after the creation. he cheated both spiritual beings God created: angel and human.

God placed the Tree of Life, and the Tree of Good and Evil in mist of the Garden; there were other trees, the fig tree, God set Adam up for the fall. Without the fall there would be no processing, and no spiritual growth. Talk about Adam who is a son of God would be nothing but a puppet, a robot if there was no plan for the fall; he would have no spiritual maturity unless he was lowered to the state of vanity.

Click to expand...

I don't like to say that God "set up" something to trap Adam. I would rather say that God foresee the fall of Adam. What if the tree were not there? Would satan do something else to make Adam/Eve disobey? I think it is very likely. Adam is God's newest and best creation. satan has to defeat it.

The message is not out there, not from Christ in some far-off heaven somewhere,not from an angel from heaven, not from Christ outside of us. The message is within:

Click to expand...

What you said sounds good and sounds familiar. However, I don't quite understand and could not see your vision. For example, the Kingdom of God is "within me". So, where would I go after I physically die? I am a scientist. I need to see a picture in my mind to understand. I can not see what you said "within me", and why couldn't I find anything about Christ "outside me"? How would the within me, outside me descriptions fit the scene of the Rapture?

Benoni · May 29, 2008

juvenissun said:
Benoni said:

Do not agree. God will not USE evil. In the example of Job, God does not USE satan to test Job. Satan wanted to do that. God just allows it. Don't forget there is satan in the Garden too. he has a part on everything after the creation. he cheated both spiritual beings God created: angel and human.

I don't like to say that God "set up" something to trap Adam. I would rather say that God foresee the fall of Adam. What if the tree were not there? Would satan do something else to make Adam/Eve disobey? I think it is very likely. Adam is God's newest and best creation. satan has to defeat it.

What you said sounds good and sounds familiar. However, I don't quite understand and could not see your vision. For example, the Kingdom of God is "within me". So, where would I go after I physically die? I am a scientist. I need to see a picture in my mind to understand. I can not see what you said "within me", and why couldn't I find anything about Christ "outside me"? How would the within me, outside me descriptions fit the scene of the Rapture?

Click to expand...

The only reliable testimony we have of Job's true state of being is that spoken by the Lord Himself, and HE declared that Job was A PERFECT MAN! Perfect, yes; but untried! His perfection remained to be tested, proven and demonstrated. Now, what does God do but deliberately hand over this perfect and upright man into the hands of Satan to do his worst upon him, only that he should not touch his life. It was because that God desired to test Job that He brought forth "the smith to blow upon the fire." Please note that it was not Satan's idea to persecute poor old Job! Oh, no! It was God Himself who brought, up the subject! There Satan was, presenting himself before the Lord, appearing for duty, and God asked, "Where have you been?" Satan replied, "Walking up and down in the earth" (no mention of Job at all). "Well, Satan," the Lord asked, "have you considered My servant Job? Have you noticed that he eschews evil and fears God? Have you noticed that, Satan?" You can be assured, that Satan had noticed Job, but he wasn't doing anything to him.

Romans 8:20 (NLT) Against its will, all creation was subjected to Gods curse. (Notice nothing said about Satan; Satan has no power unless God ordains it) But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join Gods children in glorious freedom from death and decay.
No one said that God does not dwell on this earth; all the tree and animals were created by God for a purpose, but the most important place God dwells is with in us. The spirit realm is the real; that is where God dwells, that is where there is no death/sin or curse. The Garden of Eden was a spiritual place; it was real Adam walked with God in the Cool (spirit) of the day.

I do not believe in the rapture or second coming; there are many comings in the scripture ; nothing said a bout a rapture or second coming.

juvenissun · May 30, 2008

Benoni said:
juvenissun said:

The only reliable testimony we have of Job's true state of being is that spoken by the Lord Himself, and HE declared that Job was A PERFECT MAN! Perfect, yes; but untried! His perfection remained to be tested, proven and demonstrated. Now, what does God do but deliberately hand over this perfect and upright man into the hands of Satan to do his worst upon him, only that he should not touch his life. It was because that God desired to test Job that He brought forth "the smith to blow upon the fire." Please note that it was not Satan's idea to persecute poor old Job! Oh, no! It was God Himself who brought, up the subject! There Satan was, presenting himself before the Lord, appearing for duty, and God asked, "Where have you been?" Satan replied, "Walking up and down in the earth" (no mention of Job at all). "Well, Satan," the Lord asked, "have you considered My servant Job? Have you noticed that he eschews evil and fears God? Have you noticed that, Satan?" You can be assured, that Satan had noticed Job, but he wasn't doing anything to him.

Romans 8:20 (NLT) Against its will, all creation was subjected to Gods curse. (Notice nothing said about Satan; Satan has no power unless God ordains it) But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join Gods children in glorious freedom from death and decay.
No one said that God does not dwell on this earth; all the tree and animals were created by God for a purpose, but the most important place God dwells is with in us. The spirit realm is the real; that is where God dwells, that is where there is no death/sin or curse. The Garden of Eden was a spiritual place; it was real Adam walked with God in the Cool (spirit) of the day.

I do not believe in the rapture or second coming; there are many comings in the scripture ; nothing said a bout a rapture or second coming.

Click to expand...

Thanks for writing so many words.

I do not know what to say as I am confused on the focus of discussion. I have trouble to link your comments to the OP.

Benoni · May 30, 2008

You said: Do not agree. God will not USE evil. In the example of Job, God does not USE satan to test Job. Satan wanted to do that

It was not Satan's idea to persecute poor old Job! Oh, no! It was God Himself who brought, up the subject! There Satan was, presenting himself before the Lord, appearing for duty, and God asked, " "Well, Satan," the Lord asked, "have you considered My servant Job?
You said: I don't like to say that God "set up" something to trap Adam. I would rather say that God foresee the fall of Adam. What if the tree were not there? Would satan do something else to make Adam/Eve disobey? I think it is very likely. Adam is God's newest and best creation. satan has to defeat it

Romans 8:20 (NLT) Against its will, all creation was subjected to Gods curse.

Who is Adam, a puppet or a son of God; Jesus also was a son of God and He overcame; without Adam there is not need for Jesus. It is the process God is after; if God wanted to He could of created perfect beings, and He did; because we were created in His image (on the sixth day/spirit) but on the seventh day God made us living souls and from the dust of the earth; God lowered man to a soul man, even thought we all still have His spirit with in us.

The Tree of Wisdom

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