• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

aReformedPatriot

Ron Paul for President!
Oct 30, 2004
5,460
83
41
Visit site
✟21,311.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Mar 15:38 And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom.

I just learned something that has impacted the way I view the curtain to the Holy of Holies. I had always viewed it as a simple sheet when it was anything but. It was actually quite a collasal thing, 60 Feet Long, 30 feet wide, and 4 inches thick! To me, that alters my perception of the whole event which is already mind-blowing.

Praise God, he is truley awesome!
 

Matthan

Veteran
Aug 21, 2004
1,450
214
Upstate New York
✟2,689.00
Faith
Baptist
Yes, TLE, an entire Covenant that was in effect for more than 2,000 years was torn asunder with the wispered utterance of "It is finished...", being replaced with an open invitation to every person to come unto the Lord in true belief.

So, to boggle your mind even more, just think how many people have freely chosen to decline that invitation to the most marvelous wedding that will ever be?

Matthan <J><
 
Upvote 0

Iollain

Jer 18:2-6
May 18, 2004
8,269
48
Atlantic Coast
✟8,725.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
In Relationship

WOW, i neber knew the veil was that size! I always pictured it the size of a door.
 
Upvote 0

SonOfThunder

Senior Veteran
Jul 12, 2004
1,901
143
45
✟25,286.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
4 Exo 26:1 (KJV) "Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them."



you see the Tabernacle curtains are of those colours



and there are 3 curtains, entrance curtains, they are called the Way, the truth and the Life, they are Jesus, no one comes to the Father except through Him.


James
 
Upvote 0

SonOfThunder

Senior Veteran
Jul 12, 2004
1,901
143
45
✟25,286.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Holly3278 said:
Wow! Either a 2 or a 4 inch thick curtain is pretty thick! That's some amazing stuff.

yes it is amazing, but to God ripping that was simple in light of what he can do.
I love the symbolism of the Bible and how it can intertwine like it does, who would think a curtain could hold so much information and symbolism?

James
 
Upvote 0

Ave Maria

Ave Maria Gratia Plena
May 31, 2004
41,132
2,030
43
Diocese of Evansville, IN
✟129,999.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
SonOfThunder said:
yes it is amazing, but to God ripping that was simple in light of what he can do.
I love the symbolism of the Bible and how it can intertwine like it does, who would think a curtain could hold so much information and symbolism?

James

I never knew it could contain so much symbolism!
 
Upvote 0

Lockheed

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2005
515
29
✟816.00
Faith
Calvinist
Just a quickie from Spurgeon:


[font=Arial,Verdana,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]
The Veil Has Been Torn
By Charles Spurgeon

"The veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. --Matthew 27:51

It was no small miracle that tore so strong and thick a veil; but it was not intended merely as a display of power--many lessons are taught to us. The old laws were put away, and like a worn-out jacket, laid aside. When Jesus died, the sacrifices were all finished, because all fulfilled in Him, and therefore the place of their presentation was marked with an evident token of decay.

The tearing of the veil also revealed all the hidden things of the old dispensation: the mercy-seat could now be seen, and the glory of God gleamed forth above it. By the death of our Lord Jesus we have a clear revelation of God, for He was "not as Moses, who put a veil over his face." Life and immortality are now brought to light, and things which have been hidden since the foundation of the world are manifest in Him. The annual ceremony of atonement was thus abolished. The atoning blood which was once every year sprinkled within the veil, was now offered once for all by the great High Priest, and therefore the place of the symbolical rite was broken up. No blood of bulls or of lambs is needed now, for Jesus has entered within the veil with his own blood. Hence access to God is now permitted, and is the privilege of every believer in Christ Jesus. There is no small space laid open through which we may peer at the mercy-seat, but the rent reaches from the top to the bottom.

We may come with boldness to the throne of the heavenly grace. Shall we err if we say that the opening of the Holy of Holies in this marvellous manner by our Lord's expiring cry was the type of the opening of the gates of paradise to all the saints by virtue of the Passion? Our bleeding Lord has the key of heaven; He opens and no man shuts; let us enter in with Him into the heavenly places, and sit with Him there till our common enemies shall be made His footstool.
[/font]
 
Upvote 0

Jeffrey A

Roses Theology - peace to Calvin/Armin battle
Jan 25, 2005
107
8
Pacific Northwest
✟3,077.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Lockheed said:
The veil is representative of the flesh of Christ.

Yes, in that it is representative of the Way through which we enter into the presence of God the Father... yes...

Through the torn veil of His flesh we enter the holy of holies washed in the flow of His blood.

But there were TWO VEILS in the Temple: the FIRST one as the entrance to the first compartment, called the "holy place" in which is the lampstand, the bread/table of presence, and the altar of incense, and the SECOND one as the entrance to the second compartment, called the "most holy place" or "holy of holies" in which is the ark of the covenant.

One cannot enter the second compartment unless one has first entered the first compartment. If it was the second veil into the holy of holies that had been torn, one could still not enter that compartment, for the first veil would still have been intact. No, it was the first veil into the holy place, the first compartment, that was torn, and it is into that compartment in the temple in heaven that we have access into the very presence of God as priests, through the agency of Christ's blood.

Each veil, the first AND the second, represent Christ COMING to EARTH in the FLESH to dwell among men. The FIRST coming he died -- his flesh being torn and his blood spilled -- to make the Way open for us to come in to God's very presence in heaven. The SECOND coming he tears the SECOND veil of the temple in heaven so that the wrath of God may come out upon the earth (Revelation 15:5-8). ONLY the High Priest may enter through the second veil, while into the first compartment, through the first veil, all the priests may enter so as to perform the daily ministry.

ONLY Christ as High Priest may enter through the second veil to unleash the wrath of his second coming in the flesh to set his feet upon the earth. We do not enter through the second veil into the Holy of Holies. Only through the first veil into the first compartment, the holy place, where we perform the daily ministeries before the very presence of God -- lighting the lamp of our witness filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit, eating the Bread of the Word of His Presence, and lighting the incense so that our prayers of praise, thanksgiving and petition waft through to the throne room of God by the magnifying power of the Spirit breeze.

Yes, it is interesting to note the size of the veil of the Temple, but it is just as important to note that there were (are) TWO VEILS in that same Temple, the FIRST before the holy place, and the SECOND before the holy of holies. To say we enter into the second compartment is to have gone too far.
 
Upvote 0

Lockheed

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2005
515
29
✟816.00
Faith
Calvinist

Yes. Christ remains the chief priest and mediator of the covenant.

Hebrews 9:7-12
but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation. But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 10:19
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,


Fascinating, on what exegetical basis do you claim the veil torn at the cross was the only first?

You may have something here since "we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus".


Where does the "throne of grace" lie? (Heb 4:16)

For those in Christ what remains to keep them from the second compartment, since they are "Christ's body"?
 
Upvote 0

Jeffrey A

Roses Theology - peace to Calvin/Armin battle
Jan 25, 2005
107
8
Pacific Northwest
✟3,077.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Lockheed said:
on what exegetical basis do you claim the veil torn at the cross was only the first?

One must enter through the first veil before one can even see the second:

"The first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary, for there was a tabernacle prepared: the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread (this is called the holy place); and behind the second veil, there was a tabernacle which is called the holy of holies, having (before it) a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant ... and above it the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat, but of these things we cannot now speak in detail" Hebrews 9:1-5.

You may have something here since "we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus".

Yes, "through the veil, that is, his flesh" (Heb 10:20). There is a veil before the first compartment, the holy place, through which we enter into it, the holy place, the first compartment, because its veil was "torn" open. As Hebrews 9:6 describes, "the priests are continually entering the outer [or first] tabernacle, performing the divine worship..." We are that priesthood in the tabernacle in heaven -- "You also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ" 1 Peter 2:5.

Where does the "throne of grace" lie? (Heb 4:16)

I don't know. Perhaps to the 'south' of the Temple, as did King David's throne lie relative to the earthly Temple. But I don't believe it is 'in' the holy of holies, as some might suggest. In the "new Jerusalem", there is no Temple at all (Rev 21:22), but there still is a "throne of God" (Rev 22:1). In John's revelation of the tribulation, not until the "temple of God which is in heaven was opened" did he see the "ark of his covenant" (Rev 11:19), yet John had been shown the "throne" of God from the moment he was caught up in the spirit (Rev 4:2).

For those in Christ what remains to keep them from the second compartment, since they are "Christ's body"?

A corporation is a body, yet it is not the CEO. Christ is the "head" of the "body" in the same way the CEO is the "head" of the "corporation." All we believers make up a collective 'group' -- a "body" of believers -- over which Christ rules as the leader, the commander, the "head."

We are also priests, yet Christ is the one and only High Priest. Into the first compartment go all the priests, to minister daily, offering the divine worship. But into the second compartment goes only the high priest. For what reason? I believe Revelation 15:5-8 gives that reason the High Priest enters the holy of holies: "The temple of the tabernacle of testimony [i.e., the holy of holies] in heaven was opened [i.e., it was previously closed], and the seven angels who had the seven plagues came out of the temple... and (to them was given) seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God... And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power; and no one was able to enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished."

The first veil being torn represents Christ's first flesh appearing on the surface of the earth, his flesh to be torn, to make a redemption and a way open for us to come into the presence of God and minister daily before him. The second veil being torn represents Christ's second flesh appearing on the surface of the earth, and EARTH torn, to make a recompense and a way for God to be present with us on earth.

After the cleansing of the earth of its sinners following the plagues of the tribulation, there no longer is found in the earthly Temple during the millenium the "ark of the covenant" (Jeremiah 3:16-17), for it is the symbol of that distress of Jacob when God slays a "sacrifice in Bozrah" (Is 34:1-10; 63:1-6).

It is not the blood of Christ that the High Priest, Christ, splatters over the covering of mercy, it is the blood of the sacrifice of Bozrah, the slaughter of the evil nations that have come against him so as to desecrate the holy land and his chosen city. With that sacrifice, which he alone performs, the land is cleansed, and he sits and judges the nations, and rescues Israel, and restores the earth and creation, and rules justly and righteously, and brings peace and joy to all the world.

The veil is Christ's flesh appearing to stand on the earth. Two veils. Two flesh comings. The first one torn is his own body torn to accomplish redemption and establish a royal priesthood in the outer compartment. The second one torn is the earth itself to accomplish recompense and cleanse the most holy place, vindicating his own holy name and establishing his rule.

That's the way I see it anyway.

Jeffrey A
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.