the self replicating watch argument

tas8831 · Mar 29, 2018

dad said:
Wrong. Common sense and intelligence tell us that a watch was created.

Amazing insights - proclaiming that a watch had to be designed because... we KNOW that humans design and make watches!

Absolutely brilliant!

Claiming the precise master machine of the stars and life and earth were NOT created is argument from incredulity, and ignorance.

Claiming 'stars and life and earth' are 'precise master machines' is an exercise in the fallacy of begging the question and is the antic of a simpleton.

No insight from the MASTER DESIGN of the hyena pseudopenis?

pitabread · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
Watch this. Creation needs a creator. Evolution is a faith not fact.
"The Atheist Delusion" (Movie) - Why Millions Deny the Obvious

If you want to post something compelling, I don't recommend a Ray Comfort feature. His interview-on-the-street shtick is lame, his rhetoric transparent, and his arguments terrible.

pitabread · Mar 29, 2018

dad said:
I disagree there was no creation of life, and that the evolving that did happen was after the fact. I disagree that you have any clue what variety of life existed on earth when early fossils were formed. I disagree that the fossil record is a record of life on earth, and deduce instead that it is a partial record of only certain types of life. I disagree that you can use genetics to determine common ancestors in the former nature years. I disagree that your little evo tree is a tree of life and observe instead that it is lobotomized, religious doctrine based insult to God and intelligence.

None of which has to do with the conversation between xianghua and myself, which has been around the creation of phylogenetic trees of artificial objects.

pitabread · Mar 29, 2018

dad said:
Explain what math you use that negates similarities in creations of man?

I'm not sure what you mean by "negates similarities in creations of man", since that's never been what this is about. This is about the creation of phylogenetic trees of artificial objects and the fact I didn't get statistically convergent trees from independent characteristics of said objects. Which makes sense given the lack of hereditary dependence of created objects like vehicles and the fact that most characteristics are independent of vehicle classification. And for that matter most characteristics also appear polymorphic as well (owing to the fact that vehicles often have different options for various things).

If you want to learn more about statistical significance testing you can always read about it here: p-value - Wikipedia and here: 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Statistics of Incongruent Phylogenetic Trees

ScumYetServant · Mar 29, 2018

To all who responded thank you for your response. But even one of you claimed to not of watched the whole presentation. You sercome to it like it's an assault, when it is not, it's an act of love. I know loving someone that has wronged you is tough. But that's what Christian's do. Once again I ask you watch the whole video and then comment, to do otherwise is to project your hate or ignorance your own sin.

For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
John 3:17‭-‬21 NASB

ScumYetServant · Mar 29, 2018

pitabread said:
If you want to post something compelling, I don't recommend a Ray Comfort feature. His interview-on-the-street shtick is lame, his rhetoric transparent, and his arguments terrible.

Why are you offended??? Do you love your sin?

For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
John 3:17‭-‬21 NASB

pitabread · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
Why are you offended??? Do you love your sin?

I'm not offended at all. Rather, I've seen Ray Comfort videos before and they are laughably terrible. B-movie-esque if you will.

Also getting all immediately preachy and throwing Bible quotes at people is counter-productive. If you want to be a good ambassador for your faith, you may want to modify your approach.

ScumYetServant · Mar 29, 2018

pitabread said:
I'm not offended at all. Rather, I've seen Ray Comfort videos before and they are laughably terrible. B-movie-esque if you will.

Also getting all immediately preachy and throwing Bible quotes at people is counter-productive. If you want to be a good ambassador for your faith, you may want to modify your approach.

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 1:21‭-‬25 NASB

It's not about the approach here. I am not ashamed of the gospel and will use it. It is each individuals choice how they respond. Botome line all people sin. We can not earn salvation. Hence we need a savior to intervene and pay our sin debt. If we take on Christ and belive is a choice, but as the top said we love our son, not realizing that it leads to spiritual death. Chose this day whom 6ou will serve, your self, the world, of Christ. The choice is yours I can plead with you, I can make arguments, but ultimately we all have a free will choice that seals our eternal destiny.

Speedwell · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
John 3:17‭-‬21 NASB

That's all very well, but it has nothing to do with evolution.

ScumYetServant · Mar 29, 2018

It does you miss the point when you make creation into or your own thoughts your main focus or belief then it becomes to you or you become a god in your own thoughts. This is a sin, it is called idolatry. So it does apply becuse this is what the eviloutionist does, perhaps unaware.

Speedwell · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
It does you miss the point when you make creation into or your own thoughts your main focus or belief then it becomes to you or you become a god in your own thoughts. This is a sin, it is called idolatry. So it does apply becuse this is what the eviloutionist does, perhaps unaware.

Since we're unaware of it, maybe you should explain it a little. What can a mere scientific theory have to do with our salvation in Christ?

ScumYetServant · Mar 29, 2018

Becuse if you belive the theory you belive that and make the whole universe your God or even yourself. It's called idolatry, which is a sin. It also is a choice which totally while believing the theory separates you from God the creator. And the only person capable of bridging the gap is Christ. He paid for all sin at the cross. All you need do is turn from sin, I know it's tough, we love being right. But believing in any other way other than Jesus leads to spiritual death. This means pain and suffering apart from love, all people and beings going solo into torment for eternity when your physical body dies. Me I reason with you and do try to offer you the only escape from this fate.

pitabread · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
It's not about the approach here. I am not ashamed of the gospel and will use it.

But use it for what?

Again, if you're just hear to randomly preach at people you're probably wasting your time. I've personally spent decades discussing and debating subjects with theists of various beliefs, both in person and online. I've lost count of the number of times I've had people randomly preach at me. It's nothing I haven't heard a hundred times prior.

I've also found the whole concept of randomly preaching at people to be very odd. It comes across as more than a little self-indulgent on the part of those doing the preaching. Not to mention a bit disrespectful.

I've spent a lifetime coming to my own beliefs about spirituality, life and death. I've struggled with different ideas, investigated various religions and ultimately come to terms with my own beliefs that I am comfortable with. Do you think that posting random Bible quotes is going to dislodge a lifetime of experience in that respect? (Especially keeping in mind I've read most of the Bible and currently own a couple copies).

This is why I never try to convert others because ultimately we all have our own individual journeys and need to arrive at our own place with beliefs with can truly embrace. Just as I suspect you have had your own journey and come to terms with what you believe.

Perhaps rather than randomly preaching at people you can share your journey and we can have a real conversation instead.

pitabread · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
Becuse if you belive the theory you belive that and make the whole universe your God or even yourself.

That's not at all what the Theory of Evolution is about. It's simply a scientific explanation which explains current biodiversity of life on Earth and changes that we observe in biological populations.

It also is a choice which totally while believing the theory separates you from God the creator.

There are plenty of people who are Christians and have no issue with the Theory of Evolution. Probably the best example is Dr. Francis Collins, former director of the National Human Genome Research Institute, founder of the BioLogos Foundation, and an evangelical Christian.

Speedwell · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
Becuse if you belive the theory you belive that and make the whole universe your God or even yourself. It's called idolatry, which is a sin. It also is a choice which totally while believing the theory separates you from God the creator. And the only person capable of bridging the gap is Christ. He paid for all sin at the cross. All you need do is turn from sin, I know it's tough, we love being right. But believing in any other way other than Jesus leads to spiritual death. This means pain and suffering apart from love, all people and beings going solo into torment for eternity when your physical body dies. Me I reason with you and do try to offer you the only escape from this fate.

So people who accept the theory of evolution can't be Christians?

ScumYetServant · Mar 29, 2018

Speedwell said:
So people who accept the theory of evolution can't be Christians?

You can choose one path or the other you can not be divided. There is only one way to eternal salvation, Christ alone. You can not have two masters, only christ alone

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
John 14:6 NASB

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13‭-‬14 NASB

ScumYetServant · Mar 29, 2018

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.
Matthew 6:24 NASB
In wealth substitute any thing.

bhsmte · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.
Matthew 6:24 NASB
In wealth substitute any thing.

This is the science forum and preaching, typically falls short.

ScumYetServant · Mar 29, 2018

bhsmte said:
This is the science forum and preaching, typically falls short.

Yet it is in a Christian chat with debate. I belive I am welcome here.

bhsmte · Mar 29, 2018

ScumYetServant said:
Yet it is in a Christian chat with debate. I belive I am welcome here.

Not saying you can't post what you want. Just pointing out, in a science forum, folks expect some sort of science discussion. Quoting scripture, unless you can connect it to science, falls short.

the self replicating watch argument

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