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You shouldn't be doing this at work. That is stealing from your employer.
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You shouldn't be doing this at work. That is stealing from your employer.Changing the fact that you misunderstood? I can't help that.
I'm at work writing as fast I can. I'm not always clear but I try to clarify when asked.
Um....how about basing my beliefs - tautologically - on the very nature of honesty and integrity, as to avoid contradiction? Does that carry any weight here?Nope. Incorrect and narrow interpretation of that scripture. There are all kinds of examples to the contrary in scripture. How many prophets do you know? How many have you asked about their certainty?
Not if I make up the time later.You shouldn't be doing this at work. That is stealing from your employer.
It obviously makes you feel better to keep so insisting. Enjoy your misconceptions.Right. That's why I say it is back-peddling. (inconsistent)
Depends upon which part of the model you mean - you mean the realization of the ultimate goal? For me it is a proposal, although I don't see it that way for men like Charles Finney and Yonggi Cho.This is a proposal, a theoretical model. Why is this not clear to you?
Bait and switch.Um....how about basing my beliefs - tautologically - on the very nature of honesty and integrity, as to avoid contradiction? Does that carry any weight here?
It is dangerously DISHONEST and MISLEADING for a prophet to insist, "Thus saith the Lord", if he's not really 100% sure. Remember that Moses and Joshua, for example, directed Israel to march forth to slaughter 7 nations to possess Canaan. Would YOU encourage such a murderous campaign at less than 100% certainty? I sure hope not.
The problem is that it's hard to be sure that a message is prophetic if it doesn't impact me at 100% certainty.Bait and switch.
You avoided my question. How much actual experience do you have with the prophetic?
My theoretical model has a somewhat self-certifying underpinning. Let me explain.So this is a proposal, a theoretical model.
Please resend this post to me when you get off work.My theoretical model has a somewhat self-certifying underpinning. Let me explain.
With 100 billion souls at stake, we NEED to wait upon God for 100% certainty in ecclesiological matters. You'll say, "That's just a theory. It might be mistaken"
Correct. Let's assume I'm in fact mistaken. With 100 billion souls at stake, I still need to be 100% certain that I'm mistaken. Anything less is too risky.
Thus, even if I'm wrong about the need to wait upon God for 100% certainty, I'm still right about it.
Thus I see my model as a no-brainer because the conclusion seems inescapable.
Because you talk with 100% certainty about something you appear to have a tiny amount of experience with or exposure to. You set standards for others that are too high for any human being to meet, but don't hold yourself to the same standards. Oh, the irony.The problem is that it's hard to be sure that a message is prophetic if it doesn't impact me at 100% certainty.
I can only think of one occasion where a speaker impacted me at seemingly 100% certainty but the moment transpired quickly enough that, in retrospect, I'm not sure it attained to that level.
From statements you've made in the past, you claimed to have many years of experience with genuine prophetic ministry. And you went very much up in arms when I doubted the authenticity of those prophetic experiences.
I wasn't looking forward to repeating that kind of conversation with you.
First of all, my "standard" is that the church should emphasize prayer and praise - waiting upon the Lord. What part of Moses' example do you not understand?Because you talk with 100% certainty about something you appear to have a tiny amount of experience with or exposure to. You set standards for others that are too high for any human being to meet, but don't hold yourself to the same standards. Oh, the irony.
Actually I wish I already did have 100% certainty. See my signature.Because you talk with 100% certainty...
The divine Voice endued the prophet Abraham with 100% certainty about murdering his own son. Why so? A psychopath - a man with an enormously warped conscience - might be willing to kill his own son on less than 100% certainty, but no good man would do so. The prophet Abraham was NOT a psychopath, he was a good man. The unavoidable conclusion is that the Voice gave him 100% certainty.The prophetic can be a powerful tool in evangelism, but no prophet operates with 100% certainty. That would be exceedingly dangerous and lead to pride and destruction. Humility should be one of the core characteristics of a prophet.
See here's the problem. If I or anyone see things differently, your response is "what part of [fill in the blank] don't you understand?" You assume anyone who has a different understanding has NO understanding, yet you hold up a standard of 100% certainty which you don't meet. That's called bullying and hypocrisy.First of all, my "standard" is that the church should emphasize prayer and praise - waiting upon the Lord. What part of Moses' example do you not understand?
Because this is at best a narrow understanding at worst straight up wrong. What about when Jesus sent out the 70? Why would He tell them to wipe the dust off their feet when they are rejected if He and they were evangelizing with 100% certainty? Why Paul have ever feared going anywhere or ever been arrested and beaten or ever had people reject his message if he was operating with 100% certainty? Why would Jesus say that the least... THE LEAST in the kingdom of heaven would be greater that the greatest of the OT Prophets, John the Baptist, if they couldn't minister to people without 100% certainty... Your "theory" doesn't line up with Biblical experience OR real world experience... It makes no sense. And you have zero fruit to back it up. Which leads to:That seems to be the standard, all I've done is identify some tautological, obvious supportive logic, namely that, since we've got 100 billion souls at stake here, our focus should be on waiting upon the Lord for 100% certainty on how to proceed. How can we lose, on this principle? Are you afraid that, if the church accepts my theory, the Lord will get too much prayer and praise? Again, my theory is a no-brainer.
Because, you are telling people, especially prophets, how they should behave when you don't know what it means to be a prophet. All you have is an opinion that is not 100% certain, but ridicule those who differ. This type of behavior causes DAMAGE to believers. It makes them question if they can hear God for themselves, question their faith, even question their salvation. I've seen it set good people back, even make them walk away from God because they feel like they can never measure up. I have seen it first hand and had to deal with the aftermath, it is ugly.Secondly, why are you so focused on MY experience, or lack thereof?
How about because I am a Prophet, and I'm 100% certain you are wrong? You'd have to believe me then, right?Or to put it differently, why should I be obsessed with YOUR experience, when I can look to men like Charles Finney and Yonggi Cho who seemingly won millions to the Lord, by following the very model that I'm proposing?
Are you 100% certain about this?The divine Voice endued the prophet Abraham with 100% certainty about murdering his own son. Why so? A psychopath - a man with an enormously warped conscience - might be willing to kill his own son on less than 100% certainty, but no good man would do so. The prophet Abraham was NOT a psychopath, he was a good man. The unavoidable conclusion is that the Voice gave him 100% certainty.
But here's the clincher. Hebrews 11 celebrates his attempted murder as one of the most righteous acts of faith in human history. Thus the kind of faith set forth in Hebrews as the paradigm for all of us to aspire to is 100% certainty. Exegesis will never take us there, but the divine Voice can.
I argue vigorously but I don't think I bully people.See here's the problem. If I or anyone see things differently, your response is "what part of [fill in the blank] don't you understand?" You assume anyone who has a different understanding has NO understanding, yet you hold up a standard of 100% certainty which you don't meet. That's called bullying and hypocrisy.
You're creating strawmen. There may be times when God wants you to witness to a Pharisee or a King, even if he knows in advance that neither will repent. That fact doesn't exempt you from the obligation to seek 100% certainty as to His will. With 100 billion souls at stake, we cannot afford to play guessing games. It's too risky.Because this is at best a narrow understanding at worst straight up wrong. What about when Jesus sent out the 70? Why would He tell them to wipe the dust off their feet when they are rejected if He and they were evangelizing with 100% certainty? Why Paul have ever feared going anywhere or ever been arrested and beaten or ever had people reject his message if he was operating with 100% certainty? Why would Jesus say that the least... THE LEAST in the kingdom of heaven would be greater that the greatest of the OT Prophets, John the Baptist, if they couldn't minister to people without 100% certainty... Your "theory" doesn't like up with Biblical experience OR real world experience... It makes no sense. And you have zero fruit to back it up.
Sure, if I am 100% certain that you are in the right.How about because I am a Prophet, and I'm 100% certain you are wrong? You'd have to believe me then, right?
Are you 100% certain about that? I have counseled sweet, sincere, loving people who were in tears and felt distanced from God because someone treated them exactly the way you have acted here. THAT is why I'm so passionate about it.I argue vigorously but I don't think I bully people.
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