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The Problem With Evangelism

topher694

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You want me to go through and quote all of your personal attacks from this thread alone? How about all the times someone responded with "that's not what I said"? It's all about you and your argument.

This thread was about an article. One that many of us liked and were ready to discuss. You hijacked this thread at post 10. You've made it all about you. Others have tried to bring it back to the topic, you just respond with "incorrect" and push your theory further. You post so much about it it is difficult to have any other conversation. I don't want to argue your position. I want to discuss the original topic with others, but you've driven them away.
 
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JAL

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You don't want to argue? You condemn my views vociferously, and then when I challenge your logic, suddenly you don't want to argue. How convenient.
 
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JAL

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You want me to go through and quote all of your personal attacks from this thread alone?
Earlier you provided a list of 3 or 4 examples of my "personal attacks". You neglected to mention that those disparagements were based on my analysis of the poster's reasoning. I don't randomly and capriciously denigrate an opposing position.
 
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topher694

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You don't want to argue? You condemn my views vociferously, and then when I challenge your logic, suddenly you don't want to argue. How convenient.
Don't even start with logic. I don't want to waste my time debunking your arguments. I don't teach people who are unwilling to learn. But I do want people to know that they are dangerous. What I will do is stand up for myself when someone lies about me or questions my character and motives. What I would like is a nice discussion with others on the original topic I came here for. But. You. Won't. Stop.

You still have completely ignored every single mention of your personal attacks. How convenient.
 
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JAL

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Actually it's common for threads in this forum to have a fair degree of tangential discussions. But as to your complaint...
This thread was about an article. One that many of us liked and were ready to discuss. You hijacked this thread at post 10.
...you conveniently neglected to mention that the question in the opening post was completely open-ended, allowing for a broad-based discussion of evangelism. The article offers advice on evangelistic strategy. The OP asked us to express our opinion on said advice. My response was, to abridge what I said, "I disagree with that evangelistic strategy because here's what I consider to be the correct evangelistic strategy."

How is that NOT on topic?
 
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JAL

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When a post is filled with insults and doesn't strike me as compellingly argued, I tend to ignore it. That's why I didn't provide a detailed response to this one. Here I'll just omit the insults so I can cut to the chase.
Jesus was a prophet. More than anyone, He operated with 100% certainty. The nature of the prophetic gift is that it tends to confer that same 100% certainty to the audience (for obvious reasons). That's why it is the key to effective evangelism. Anyway I digress. The point is that when Jesus sent out the 70, I am confident that they felt 100% certain of the need to obey. Can I prove this? I don't need to. Fact is, you can't prove that they lacked 100% certainty.

Did they preach with 100% certainty? He told them exactly which words to say. Think about it. The very Son of God speaking to men, telling them exactly what words to say. Isn't that the definition of prophetic ministry?

You ask why they might suffer rejection. Even the devil likely hears God at 100% certainty and still rebels. 100% certainty doesn't guarantee a softened heart, it's purpose is to insure reliable messaging. That's why we need to wait in prayer/praise, asking God to go before us softening hearts.

And I don't even need to assume they preached at 100% certainty. The technical term for evangelism in Acts is witnessing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall that the 70 were officially designated as witnesses. Even the 12 didn't officially become witnesses until Pentecost, in my understanding. Prior to our becoming witnesses, God can train us in preparatory ways devoid of 100% certainty - but that fact doesn't negate the obvious reasons for us to wait upon Him for 100% certainty.

You ask why Paul may have suffered fear? Where did I say that 100% certainty casts out all fear? Again, it's purpose is to clearly convey a message - even if it is a frightful one.

You ask about the least in the kingdom of God? Really? Where in that verse is there a clear commentary on the issue of evangelism, prophecy, 100% certainty, etc?

Your post seems to spew out a random set of biblical facts devoid of any strongly compelling argumentation.
 
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Saint Steven

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Thus 100% certainty is set forth in Hebrews 11 as the kind of faith for us all to attain to. Tell me, how do we get there? Aside from waiting upon the Lord. Will exegesis take you there? Nope. Too fallible.
Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
 
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Saint Steven

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Are you implying that 100% certainty is impossible?
What you are calling 100 percent certainty only amounts to being self-convinced. Like those at Jonestown. Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

If you are looking for a prophet that is self-convinced, they shouldn't be hard to find. They are looking for followers.
 
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JAL

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Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
Verse 17:

"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice".
 
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JAL

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Like Abraham? Next you're going to argue that Abraham convinced himself to slaughter his son? After all, he never really wanted a son, right? Um...not.
 
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Saint Steven

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Did they preach with 100% certainty? He told them exactly which words to say. Think about it. The very Son of God speaking to men, telling them exactly what words to say. Isn't that the definition of prophetic ministry?
You are limiting evangelism to public preaching. And identifying the preacher as anyone who is self-convinced enough to do it.

Have you ever shared the gospel with anyone?
 
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Saint Steven

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Like Abraham? Next you're going to argue that Abraham convinced himself to slaughter his son? After all, he never really wanted a son, right? Um...not.
You don't need to have a revival meeting to hear God's voice.
He has a loud voice and a soft voice. Have you never heard God's voice?
You don't have to be a prophet to hear God's voice. You only have to be one of his.
You should try it if you haven't already. Maybe he will send you to be the public preacher. (horrors)

Can You Hear Me? Tuning in to the God who Speaks
Brad teaches that anyone can learn to hear God's voice through the simple practice of "listening prayer." Those who begin to listen will find out that God's love will heal wounded hearts and empower them to heal this broken world. Check out Brad 's book "Can You Hear Me? Tuning in to the God who Speaks"
 
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Saint Steven

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Like Abraham? Next you're going to argue that Abraham convinced himself to slaughter his son? After all, he never really wanted a son, right? Um...not.
This whole business about being 100 percent convinced is nonsense.
No one needs to be convinced any further after hearing God's clear voice.
And Abraham was just as convinced about walking out into the empty wilderness not knowing (less than 100 percent certainty) of where he was going, as he was of the command to slay his son.
 
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JAL

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...And identifying the preacher as anyone who is self-convinced enough to do it.
Surely this is deliberate misrepresentation, isn't it? Waiting on the Lord for direct revelation is my position. That hardly amounts to self-convincing. I already mentioned the prophet David:

"David enquired of the LORD, saying, Shall I go and smite these Philistines? And the LORD said unto David, Go, and smite the Philistines."
 
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JAL

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You're misextrapolating. 100% certainty doesn't confer omniscience - it merely conveys one message at a time. In this case the message was to pack his bags and start moving (regardless of whether he knew the final destination). Here's what John Wesley had to say about it:

"The God of glory appeared to [Abraham] to give him this call, appeared in such displays of his glory as left Abram no room to doubt" (John Wesley’s Notes on Gen 12:1).

No room to doubt? That's 100% certainty caused by direct revelation.
 
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JAL

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You're putting words in my mouth and creating strawmen. Might that be for lack of a solid rebuttal?
 
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JAL

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This whole business about being 100 percent convinced is nonsense.
Nonsense? You might want to begin with a point-by-point rebuttal of my recent posts 246 and 260, among others. Because it is your words that appear to be nonsense.
 
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Saint Steven

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No. The question is how do you know that the one who claims (is self-convinced) is actually hearing from God? How do you discern?
 
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Saint Steven

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You're putting words in my mouth and creating strawmen. Might that be for lack of a solid rebuttal?
That's avoidance. Have you ever heard God's voice?

Saint Steven said:
You don't need to have a revival meeting to hear God's voice.
He has a loud voice and a soft voice. Have you never heard God's voice?
You don't have to be a prophet to hear God's voice. You only have to be one of his.
You should try it if you haven't already. Maybe he will send you to be the public preacher. (horrors)
 
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