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JacktheCatholic

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Imagination is a good thing and some people could use some.

For the record the Catholics of the RCC not only accept this explanation of the Keys but I am sure it is in the Catechism as well so it is a teaching norm.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Since Chrysostom stated elsewhere that the Apostle John also holds the keys, it cannot possibly be understood as being exclusive to Peter.

John

John shares in Peter's authority and the Keys and this is fine.

But Chrysostom did state thet Peter alone received the Keys didn't he? So you must understand his writings in their entirety and not simply the parts we like.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Peter's primacy is not in question, your transferring that to the Papacy is. The Orthodox understanding is that all bishops are Peter's successors.

I did not know that about the Orthodox.

But we see Peter as establishing the Chair much like Moses and that his successors hold the Keys.

I also see no contradiction in this explanation and when understood with how the Davidic Kingdom operated (Isaiah 22) we can also see that the RCC explanation makes perfect sense.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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My point was that the Apostles were seen as authoritative on the teachings of Christ because they were taught by Christ. Even scripture was chosen with this in mind.

John out lived all the Apostles and at a time when John was probably the last Apostle left alive the Church as a whole still looked to Rome for authority.

Why? The most obvious answer is that Rome is where the Keys are and the seat of Peter.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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among the othersWe've shown this to be false several times. Your persistence with this falsehood only makes you look stupid.

You use writings from the ECF as those they refute the facts about the Davidic Kingdom and they do not refute and in some cases do not assist. The facts of the Davidic Kingdom and how it operated for hundreds of years before Jesus came is my point.

That is also in scripture. Unless you can show that the assertions I have made in regards to the Keys and the hierarchy of the Davidic Kingdom is false (as seen in Isaiah 22) then your claim is unfounded.

You have still to show any proof to the contrary.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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And you blatantly disregard the Church Fathers.

Unlike what you have been doing I consider all that they wrote and not simply the lines that fit my argument.

I have shown where Chrysostom even supports what I say or at the very least contradicts your claim.
 
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simonthezealot

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Eliakim is a type of Christ.
Eliakim held the keys to the earthly treasures--old covenant

Christ holds the keys to the heavenly treasures --New covenant

Don't place Peter in Christs' spot, even he will tell 1 Peter 5:4 who's whom.
 
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chestertonrules

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Eliakim is a type of Christ.
Eliakim held the keys to the earthly treasures--old covenant

Christ holds the keys to the heavenly treasures --New covenant

Don't place Peter in Christs' spot, even he will tell 1 Peter 5:4 who's whom.


We didn't give Peter the keys, Jesus did.

Does this seem vague to you?

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
 
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tblaine74

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Eliakim is a type of Christ.
Eliakim held the keys to the earthly treasures--old covenant

Christ holds the keys to the heavenly treasures --New covenant

Don't place Peter in Christs' spot, even he will tell 1 Peter 5:4 who's whom.

Eliakim held the key to the house of David because it was given to him by the King of the house of David. Are you suggesting that Jesus holds the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven because they were given to him by the King of Heaven? Is Christ not the King of Heaven? I don’t think you have followed the implications of your parallel. Eliakim is not a type of Christ, he was only a steward, he is a type of Peter.
 
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simonthezealot

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Yeah it's simple the HS revealed through Peter that; Christ is the Son of the Living God. That's the rock.
 
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chestertonrules

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Yeah it's simple the HS revealed through Peter that; Christ is the Son of the Living God. That's the rock.
You are desperate to avoid the crystal clear words of scripture.


Question: If Jesus was the rock he was referring to then why did he give the keys of authority to Peter?


The truth won't change for you, sorry.
 
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simonthezealot

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So your saying that Rev 3:7, they are speaking of Peter then also? It's pretty clear to me who he is talking about. And this is a direct quote of ISA 22:22 that Christ is using.

Rev 3:7 And2532 to the3588 angel32 of the3588 church1577 in1722 Philadelphia5359 write;1125 These things3592 saith3004 he that is holy,40 he that is true,228 he that hath2192 the3588 key2807 of David,1138 he that openeth,455 and2532 no man3762 shutteth;2808 and2532 shutteth,2808 and2532 no man3762 openeth;455
 
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simonthezealot

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You are desperate to avoid the crystal clear words of scripture.


Question: If Jesus was the rock he was referring to then why did he give the keys of authority to Peter?


The truth won't change for you, sorry.
It was to all believers, but you'll never see that with Rome tinted glasses.
 
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simonthezealot

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It was to all believers, but you'll never see that with Rome tinted glasses.
When He (Christ) opens the door, no one else shuts it; and when He shuts it, no one opens it. Christ, the great antitype of Eliakim, has the key to truth, holiness, opportunity, service, testimony, and salvation. Jesus said, "... no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me" (Jn. 14:6). Why? He has the key--and He is the key.
 
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chestertonrules

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Simon,

It is clear the the bible is not sufficient for you.

You must truncate, elaborate, and even add words to wrench the meaning you want from scripture.

Some day I pray that you will take God's word to heart.

FYI: Jesus said to his disciples: 16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

If you reject those Jesus sent, you reject him.
 
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Brennin

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Simon,

It is clear the the bible is not sufficient for you.

You must truncate, elaborate, and even add words to wrench the meaning you want from scripture.

Some day I pray that you will take God's word to heart.

Medice, cura te ipsum!
 
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simonthezealot

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Since I am not following the apostate teachings of man made doctrines, i'll rest comfortably in the arms of my LORD and Savior Jesus Christ, author of my salvation.
Clearly SRIPTURE is SUFFICIENT for me is it for YOU?
 
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simonthezealot

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Medice, cura te ipsum!

Please cite an example if you are going to make an implicit accusation!

 
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chestertonrules

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Since I am not following the apostate teachings of man made doctrines, i'll rest comfortably in the arms of my LORD and Savior Jesus Christ, author of my salvation.
Clearly SRIPTURE is SUFFICIENT for me is it for YOU?
anyone reading the thread above can see how silly your response is.

You were caught red-handed distorting the word of god.

Go back and read it yourself!
 
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