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The philosophy behind the theology

SMA12

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The Church that Christ founded has not and will not pass away. The Church that Christ founded is authoritative. If your concept of the Church is that one is it even capable of authority? How so?

What about my question? Where do they turn in that situation other than disunity.
 
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Albion

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Because you wanted me to deal with the OP, I will. Frankly, I consider it lightweight and full of errors, but I'll address them one at a time.

Only...it's undeniable that this ^ has NOT been the consequence of this "authority." It has not produced unity. It has produced innumerable splits--what you'd call 'disunity.'

The EO in 1054 and the OO before that. The Cathars, Waldensians, and others during the Middle Ages. The Protestants in the 1500s. The Old Catholics in the late 1800. The Society of St. Pius X and the Society of St. Pius V among others in the 20th century. And that's just skimming the surface of the splits experienced by the Roman Catholic Church.

UNITY? This is a record of almost non-stop and major disunity...and that's to say nothing of the disunity that is internal.

So much for that theory.


No, we've been over this before and you're still wrong. Catholic "authority" meant the prohibition against individual Bible study. Protestantism argued that the Bible should be available to everyone and that everyone has a right to follow his conscience. That should not be miscast as an invitation to make one's one doctrines, for that is plainly untrue, as anyone with any knowledge of the subject knows. If you are not familiar with all the confessions, statements of faith, and the like that govern Protestant belief and practice, we'll try to help you.

Disagreements, therefore, lead to division and disintegration.
OK. I explained in the first paragraph how disagreement has plagued the Catholic Church throughout its history...so where is that Unity you want us to think exists?
 
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SMA12

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So your argument against authority is that those who have abandoned authority are now disunited? Seems to help my case.

[Edit] And don't act as if the Catholic Church was trying to keep the Bible out of the hands of the individual- if that is what you are trying to imply I am not sure but I have heard it before. Until the invention of the printing press a single Bible would take a monk a year to hand copy, making the Bible very expensive to own. Most people didn't have a years wages to spend on a Bible, so the local catholic church would carry one for the community to use. Naturally they would also guard it from theft.

And a bunch of contradictory doctrines of faith are only evidence well meaning people interpret the Bible incorrectly. And more importantly evidence your concept of the Church has no authority as a whole, its authority is limited to a bunch of contradictory authorities within sects of Christianity.

And all I really wanted from you was the answer to one question. The Church of the Bible was authoritative. Explain to me how your concept of the Church has authority?
 
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Albion

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So your argument against authority is that those who have abandoned authority are now disunited?
You read the whole thing and THAT was what you took away from it?

Let me make it as clear as possible.

Your theory is baloney. And we know that because the so-called authority that you say preserves unity has demonstrably produced the opposite result in the RCC! Therefore, your analysis of Protestantism and "authority" is DOA as well.
 
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SMA12

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Let me break it down for you. You are imposing your view of the Church on my theory and therefor not fully understanding it.

So from the beginning:

Me:

1) Christ establishes a Church. This Church is authoritative, has visible leadership and definitive teachings.

2) Those who abandon the authority leave the Church. The Church, the authoritative institution- not the invisible body of all believers- is left in unity. United by our teaching, leadership, etc.

3) This means a united Church, not by your definition of the loose body of believers, but by my definition- the original institution founded by Christ and passed on through the Apostles, united in creed and leadership.

In your scenario, by abandoning the original authority, you are left with a choice:

1) Either your concept of the Church is limited to your denomination and only that. In which case you would have authority, consistent teaching, consistent leadership, etc. but no reasonable claim to the original Church.

or

2) You define the Church as a loose body of believers and can thus still claim a connection to the original church, but sacrifice the ability of your concept of the Church to have any authority, consistency of teaching, etc.
 
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Targaryen

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We don't see eye to eye all the time here Albion but that was dead on. Thank you
 
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mikedsjr

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This is an interesting thread title though I'm not as impressed by the opening remarks. However, its absolutely true philosophy impacts Protestantism more than Catholicism, but that hasnt anything to do with Catholicism being a true theology over Protestantism. Modern day Catholicism isn't anything like Catholicism prior to 20th century and that's due to philosophies of modern times affecting Catholicism. But certainly Catholicism has not been affected by philosophies nearly as much as Protestantism. And lets not exclude the advancement of technology affecting theology. The steamboat brought about movement of people to America to places beyond the NE. This also will impacts Christianity.
 
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Albion

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That thesis will take some work. The distinctly Roman Catholic doctrines are all based on philosophy--Purgatory, Limbo, Transubstantiation, the Marian dogmas and legends, etc.
 
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