The number one bugger for creationists: C

The Bellman · Sep 19, 2004

nyjbarnes said:
Agreed I guess.

Another quick example...I went to a website of some online church, which has the legal authority to ordain people - you may have heard of it. I entered my name and address and got a certificate saying I was ordained. Now, do you think it's valid for me to call myself Reverend, when others have studied for years to earn that title? Is my ordaination worth as much as theirs? Am I belittling/demeaning them if I start calling myself Reverend? And - lastly - am I being less than honest if I announce to all that I'm a Reverend, and start to talk as if my "reverend-hood" gives me some authority on religious issues?

nyjbarnes · Sep 19, 2004

Yeah, that's a good example. It just appeared to me that it wasn't enough that they debased the man in his argument, now they start going after his accolades (real or fallacious)

The Bellman · Sep 19, 2004

nyjbarnes said:
Yeah, that's a good example. It just appeared to me that it wasn't enough that they debased the man in his argument, now they start going after his accolades (real or fallacious)

Okay, it seems we're in agreement so far. Now, imagine that I start announcing myself as Reverend Bellman. I put out videos, have a radio show, all in the name of Reverend Bellman. And all of the stuff I put out says much the same thing - christianity is a lie, Jesus never existed, I can prove he didn't, the gospels are all fake, and so forth. When people examine the 'evidence' I provide, they successfully refute it...and I just ignore that refutation. I keep preaching the same thing, saying I know christianity (after all, I'm a Reverend), and it's all garbage...

After all of the above, would you be surprised if many christians started putting me down in much the same way that many people put down Hovind? Not because I disagree with them, but because I knowingly spout false data, I ignore people who are actually educated/qualified in theology, I have a spurious ordination, and I obviously know virtually nothing about the subject?

Arikay · Sep 19, 2004

Yep, you're right, I don't have a diploma from a diploma mill. But that doesn't mean much, I just see no point wasting the money. Everything I have read says that all I need to pass most of their courses in christian education is the search feature at www.blueletterbible.org. I have seen some sample worksheets and they read like elementary school papers. Such as,
Who was Noahs wife?
Noah was _____ years old when the flood came.
Etc.

Although its very easy to attack Hovind for his bad credentials, bad attitude, refusal to obey the law, or act christ like, etc. I try not too. Its much more effective to attack his bad evidence.
Quick example, he claims that the star Sirius has changed from a Red giant to a white dwarf in only a couple hundred years. This is not true, what is true is that Sirius A a red giant and Sirius B a white dwarf, orbit each other, and neither has changed recently.

nyjbarnes said:
Except, (and I'd bet next weeks lunch money on this one) you're not.

Again, if you choose to debase him because of how he attained his degree, its your choice. However, if he reasoning for arguements and merits of his arguments are enough why are you digging for more?

Again, I don't know hovind. I have no idea what he stands for except C'ism and that you guys trash him all the time.

Nathan Poe · Sep 19, 2004

nyjbarnes said:
Yeah, that's a good example. It just appeared to me that it wasn't enough that they debased the man in his argument, now they start going after his accolades (real or fallacious)

If his accolades are fallacious (and they are), is it even possible to "debase" them?

Wouldn't that be like throwing dirt on dirt?

Physics_guy · Sep 19, 2004

Well, I don't know Hovind....but if they are calling him a Dr...it's probably because he earned his PHd, regardless of how or where....he must have earned it.

You are mistaken - you have fallen for one of Hovind's many lies. He never earned a PhD in any way that maintains the meaning of the words "earned" and "PhD."

Physics_guy · Sep 19, 2004

What do they call People that graduated med school with a c average?

DOCTORS! Don't be a geek.

Sorry - but don't call me a "geek" until you actually attempt to learn what is being discussed. Being a ignorant fool is not a badge of honor, BTW.

Hovind BOUGHT his degree from a NON-ACCREDITED diploma mill that is run out of a suburb home in Colorado. He is lying (because even he admits that his degree is not valid) every time he uses the title Doctor. Foolish gullible people seem to believe that he is one. You know what they say about repeating a lie enough times?

Now, don't be a moron.

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

Arikay said:
You are so right, God made the earth appear spherical and God made it appear to orbit the sun to shame the wise. But we all know that people of true faith believe the truth, that the earth is flat and the sun orbits it.

I love it when people post verses like this and make the assumption that it doesn't apply to them. Which is even more ironic, because its as if they are above us, they are wise and strong... Now see the verse.

when did i make that assumption?

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

interesting how offensive scripture is to non-christians eh?

USincognito · Sep 19, 2004

BigBen said:
interesting how offensive scripture is to non-christians eh?

Where did this come from?

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

USincognito said:
Where did this come from?

(page 54)

Dark_Adonis · Sep 19, 2004

BigBen said:
(page 54)

Perhaps you could link it to us? Using the icon with the globe directly above the text box where you write your post?

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

how do you do that?

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

here we go

http://www.christianforum.com/t843199&page=54

knuckle50 · Sep 19, 2004

If there is a god, why would he even bother to create stars? To make the world look pretty? Why not just have a sky with bright dots on it, why create balls of burning fire so far away? Why make a sun when he could just make the world perpetually bright and warm?

Please don't respond with the ridiculous argument that god had a reason and we just don't know it. There has to be a reason for creating all this.

ALSO, why did he take 6 days to create the world when he could've just done it with a single thought?

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

i believe that he made the universe for exploration and observation, so that we might find God in his creation

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

knuckle50 said:
Please don't respond with the ridiculous argument that god had a reason and we just don't know it. There has to be a reason for creating all this.

Well if there is a God, as i believe there is, he's probably pretty smart compared us. We may not be able to understand everything he has done, is doing and will do.

I reckon's he's pretty incredible and i don't have all the answers (does anyone?) but then that's not what Christianity is about, its about faith. (Don't get me wrong, not blind faith.)

1 Corinthians 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength."

Logic · Sep 19, 2004

So you don't understand stuff, ergo God?

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

lol, no

good point, as i said not blind faith.

i've put a lot of thought, time and research into my search for truth. I'm not one to be taken for a ride.

Don't write me off as a non-thinker or someone's who's brainwashed, i believe because of the evidence.

(If your really interested, check out any of these books by Lee Strobel, Case for a Creator, Case for Faith and Case for Christ)

BigBen · Sep 19, 2004

evidence comes in many shapes and forms too, geological, archaeological and experential to name a few.

The number one bugger for creationists: C

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