The myth of religious violence

Crowns&Laurels · Nov 16, 2015

Isn't only like 13% of the world's violence today perpetuated by religion?

The myth is precisely that, a myth. Atheists ran the idea to the burger, however, that religion is the cause of all things bad. Every Christian who has ever debated anyone has come across that super snug argument at least once before. Well, ~reality~

This world would be just as violent if religion never existed.

bhsmte · Nov 16, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
Isn't only like 13% of the world's violence today perpetuated by religion?

The myth is precisely that, a myth. Atheists ran the idea to the burger, however, that religion is the cause of all things bad.

In regards to today's world, I have no idea.

What is your source for the 13% number?

dayhiker · Nov 16, 2015

Well, most violence in America is people who are lovers or close friends, car accidents and those who are stealing for drug money. We have had a few churches burned etc. But the religious violence in America is very small compared to those things.

Lukelight · Dec 11, 2015

Open Heart said:
I believe they are making a generalization. For example, the "religious wars" after the Reformation had more to do with princes wanting to be free from the emperor and the pope than religion. However, I'm hard pressed to find a reason other than religion for ISIS' terrorism.

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Ana the Ist · Dec 12, 2015

SteveB28 said:
And what exactly do you think religion is!? It is the set of beliefs that people hold which direct their attitudes and actions on a range of issues.

For the third time I ask the question - you say that it is a myth that religious belief causes violence - so, once more, would women have been burnt as 'witches' if no-one had believed that witches had ever existed?

Allow me to answer it for you, since you seem determined to run from it:

The concept of 'witches' is an entirely religious one. Therefore, the concept that they should "not be suffered to live" is also an entirely religious belief.

It is entirely due to religion that women were burnt/hung/strangled as witches!

Entirely?

I'm sure some people were executed as witches entirely out of religious belief.

I'm also sure there is ample evidence that many of these cases where accusations of devilry were made against someone...the motivation behind these accusation were entirely non-religious.

SteveB28 · Dec 12, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
Entirely?

I'm sure some people were executed as witches entirely out of religious belief.

I'm also sure there is ample evidence that many of these cases where accusations of devilry were made against someone...the motivation behind these accusation were entirely non-religious.

Present your evidence!

Ana the Ist · Dec 12, 2015

SteveB28 said:
Present your evidence!

Oof...you won't just take my word on this? I've read of multiple accounts where nobleman accused nobleman of satanism in order to seize his title or land or both. On a local scale, witchcraft was similarly used...

You want me to try and dig up specific examples?

keith99 · Dec 12, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
Oof...you won't just take my word on this? I've read of multiple accounts where nobleman accused nobleman of satanism in order to seize his title or land or both. On a local scale, witchcraft was similarly used...

You want me to try and dig up specific examples?

It is well known that the Knights Templar were accused of Satanism by Phillip the Fair (meaning pretty boy Phillip, not just Phillip) and that Phillip owed the Templars large amounts of money. Said money was of course never repaid. Pretty strong evidence that the motivation was money and power.

SteveB28 · Dec 12, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
Oof...you won't just take my word on this? I've read of multiple accounts where nobleman accused nobleman of satanism in order to seize his title or land or both. On a local scale, witchcraft was similarly used...

You want me to try and dig up specific examples?

And satanism and witchcraft are religious concepts. Even if the motivation to use them is some kind of ruse, in order for it to work someone involved has to have a belief that those things are real!

keith99 · Dec 12, 2015

SteveB28 said:
And satanism and witchcraft are religious concepts. Even if the motivation to use them is some kind of ruse, in order for it to work someone involved has to have a belief that those things are real!

Actually not true. Think of The Emperor's New Clothes'. No one saw the clothes but everyone thought others did. Same here, if everyone thinks most others believe...

SteveB28 · Dec 12, 2015

keith99 said:
Actually not true. Think of The Emperor's New Clothes'. No one saw the clothes but everyone thought others did. Same here, if everyone thinks most others believe...

Let's just summarise for a moment.

You are suggesting that people have been accused/tried/persecuted for witchcraft in a situation wherein no one involved believed in witches, is that correct?

keith99 · Dec 12, 2015

SteveB28 said:
Let's just summarise for a moment.

You are suggesting that people have been accused/tried/persecuted for witchcraft in a situation wherein no one involved believed in witches, is that correct?

I doubt any where no one, but accuser, accused and judge, hell yes.

Ana the Ist · Dec 12, 2015

It is entirely due to religion that women were burnt/hung/strangled as witches!

I believe that was the statement I disagreed with....

It's certainly not "entirely" the reason...not in every situation.

keith99 · Dec 12, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
It is entirely due to religion that women were burnt/hung/strangled as witches!

I believe that was the statement I disagreed with....

It's certainly not "entirely" the reason...not in every situation.

Same position I take. Time for me to make it clear that does not mean I think religion played a minor role. I think it played the largest single role, save perhaps superstition that predated religion.

SteveB28 · Dec 12, 2015

keith99 said:
Same position I take. Time for me to make it clear that does not mean I think religion played a minor role. I think it played the largest single role, save perhaps superstition that predated religion.

Perhaps this is a problem of semantics. Allow me to define.

I consider 'religion' to be formulation of world views based upon an acceptance of the supernatural.

Witches, Satan, etc are supernatural constructs. Ergo, they are produced through religious beliefs. No religion, no witches, no witch hunts.

Clear?

ken777 · Dec 14, 2015

SteveB28 said:
And satanism and witchcraft are religious concepts. Even if the motivation to use them is some kind of ruse, in order for it to work someone involved has to have a belief that those things are real!

The condemnation of witches is religious - the penalty was a social issue. Today, most Christians still condemn witchcraft but would not condone violence against those who practice witchcraft because we live in a different social context. Same with homosexuals.

The myth of religious violence

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