The Lord's Supper

NoMoreHopelessness · Dec 11, 2007

Ok, I have a question for those of you who used to visit other churches and used to take part in the Lord's supper there:

Now, that you have become part of a confessional Lutheran church, was it different? What impact does the communion in the Lutheran church have on you?

I can see - and have experienced myself - the comfort and strengthening of faith that comes from the words "This is my blood and this is my body" being proclaimed. And I do abhor the irreverence with which the supper is treated in many evangelical churches. In fact I think it is fair to say that for many Evangelicals the Lord's supper is irrelevant.

Now that is terrible but frankly I feel that your position is the other extreme:

MarkRohfrietsch said:
Those who believe in the real presence recieve the forgivness of sins, those who do not believe bring judgement upon themselves.

I find this statement VERY hard to accept. But I am willing to learn and change my mind. How do christians who do not believe in RP - OR according to what you say, who simply commune together with those who don't - bring judgement upon themselves and how does it manifest in their lifes?

RadMan · Dec 11, 2007

1 Corinthians 11:29-31 (New International Version)

29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

filosofer · Dec 11, 2007

synger said:
While I agree with you, DaRev, I also believe the Augsburg has a place. If she's like me, she will not go to nor join another church without her husband. He is the spiritual head of the household. I would not join the LCMS until Hunter was convinced, even though I was ready much sooner than he was.

I was really worried about some of the same things for a time, but from my study of Scriptures and the Augsburg (and some research into the donatism heresy, which also touched on the matter of sacramental... effectiveness, if you will, in the early Church),
I came to believe that God would bring us to the Lutheran church in His time. I felt it was more important for me to support my husband's searching without pressuring him to make a decision Right Now than to defy him because I was afraid I'd "lose out" on the Sacrament rightly administered.

Granted, every situation is different. I would hope we could continue to answer her questions authoritatively from Scripture and the BoC without unduly pressuring her to make changes that may need a bit more time to come to fruition.

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Some wise words. Thanks for sharing them.

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SobriaInebrietas · Dec 11, 2007

synger said:
To understand the differences between Reformed and Lutheran ideas of the Lord's Supper, I'd suggest looking at these documents, and then talking with your minister and husband about what you've learned.

Reformed:
Heidelberg Catechism: On the Sacraments, On the Lord's Supper

Lutheran:
Luther's Larger Catechism: The Sacrament of the Altar

I have, over the past six years, moved from staunchly Calvinistic, and an ordained Presbyterian elder, to joyfully confessing Lutheran doctrine as a member of the LCMS. Sacramental doctrine was a huge part of that journey for me. PM me if you wish.

synger said:
While I agree with you, DaRev, I also believe the Augsburg has a place. If she's like me, she will not go to nor join another church without her husband. He is the spiritual head of the household. I would not join the LCMS until Hunter was convinced, even though I was ready much sooner than he was.

I was really worried about some of the same things for a time, but from my study of Scriptures and the Augsburg (and some research into the donatism heresy, which also touched on the matter of sacramental... effectiveness, if you will, in the early Church),
I came to believe that God would bring us to the Lutheran church in His time. I felt it was more important for me to support my husband's searching without pressuring him to make a decision Right Now than to defy him because I was afraid I'd "lose out" on the Sacrament rightly administered.

Granted, every situation is different. I would hope we could continue to answer her questions authoritatively from Scripture and the BoC without unduly pressuring her to make changes that may need a bit more time to come to fruition.

Thank you Synger, for your advice and sharing that with me. It is encouraging to see someone that has also been through this kind of thing... and I believe that you are right that I do need to remain with my husband and wait on the Lord. If He is to bring me to a Lutheran church it will be in His time, not mine. It would not be right to go to another church without the spiritual head of my family (Well, it is just the two of us, but you all know what I mean).

And after talking with my husband again last night, I believe it would be wise to remain with him and follow his counsel on the matter. Although he is understanding and supportive of my doubts regarding Calvinism and the Reformed church - and my attraction to the Lutheran faith - he stands firm that I should remain faithful to the church to which I have made vows, and continue my research and searching for answers there before anything else.

I'm not sure how all of this will turn out in the end, but it is in the Lord's hands, and I will be patient and trust in Him.

RadMan said:
1 Corinthians 11:29-31 (New International Version)

29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

Thank you for sharing that verse. I will be talking with my pastor about all of this soon. I will present my arguement, and if I do not recieve a satisfactory scriptural explaination, I will abstain from taking the Lord's Supper there. They can't kick me out of the church for that.

Although I am not able, and maybe not quite ready, to leave this church yet, I will stay for now and see where all of this leads me. I am sure I can still receive a great benefit in the reading and preaching of the Word, even if I don't agree with them on a number of points?

I don't know, but for now I have to make the best of what I have...

filosofer said:
Some wise words. Thanks for sharing them.

Yes, indeed wise words... Thanks to all who have contributed so far! I appreciate all of the advice!

NoMoreHopelessness · Dec 11, 2007

RadMan said:
1 Corinthians 11:29-31 (New International Version)

29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

Context!!!

20When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, 21for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing?
.....
33So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other. 34If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.

Paul is not speaking of doctrinal differences here, is he? To say that those who do not believe in Real Presence bring judgement upon themselves, seems to me to be a distortion of the meaning of these verses.

I also had a quick look in Luther's two catechisms. I could not find any statement like that there.

DaRev · Dec 11, 2007

NoMoreHopelessness said:
Context!!!

20When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, 21for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing?
.....
33So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other. 34If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.

Paul is not speaking of doctrinal differences here, is he? To say that those who do not believe in Real Presence bring judgement upon themselves, seems to me to be a distortion of the meaning of these verses.

Not at all. What Paul is addressing is the way the Corinthians had perverted the sacrament of the Lord's Supper to the point that it was no longer the "Lord's Supper" that they were having. The Corinthian Church had turned the Sacrament into a party. He goes on to explain what the Lord's Supper is, including the words of institution to emphasize that they are indeed receiveing the very body and blood of Christ, and that those who eat and drink without examining themsleves and without discerning, recognizing the body of Christ, are committing a sin and are bringing judgement upon themselves. The context does indeed support the teaching that those who receive the Sacrament and do not hold to the Real Presence are bringing judgement upon themselves.

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