Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I support the ACLU's choice to defend Phelps. I don't support his disruptive actions. The ACLU is doing everything within reason to defend civil liberties, which is what it was formed to do. Phelps will be fairly defended, and likely will be barred from disrupting funerals. The wording of the law is what is most important to me. Sorry that I wasn't clear earlier. I can have some pretty confusing and seemingly contradictory views.MachZer0 said:I'm confused. You seemed earlier to be saying you supported the ACLU in this case and therefore supported Phelps in this case as well. Now, you are saying you oppose Phelps. Can you clarify your stance as it regards this particular situation?
MachZer0 said:ACLU Sues for Anti-Gay Group That Pickets at Troops' Burials
I suppose this is an example of how much the Left hates George Bush and the war. So much so that they support Fred Phelps
Wait a minute. Phelps is clearly preaching HATE speech, quite literally. His website includes 'hate' in the title. I thought that hate speech was frowned upon by liberals of all stripes (except hatred of Bush and Israel, of course). Now suddenly the party of total tolerance is trying to live up to its billing? Lousy example case for that, I'd say.blueapplepaste said:To suggest that the "left" supports Phelps is a downright misrepresentation and pretty much a lie. I believe the Bible says something about this. I can't stand Phelps and his tactics as much as the next guy. Phelps is doing anything but the work of God and is a disgusting human being; if he can even be called that. however, his rights are being violated by his "protests" being limited. Once we outlaw his free speech then we start down a slippery slope. Once again the ACLU isn't supporting some radical agenda; unless that radical agenda is the Constitution.
Borealis said:Wait a minute. Phelps is clearly preaching HATE speech, quite literally. His website includes 'hate' in the title. I thought that hate speech was frowned upon by liberals of all stripes (except hatred of Bush and Israel, of course). Now suddenly the party of total tolerance is trying to live up to its billing? Lousy example case for that, I'd say.
Borealis said:So what's the point of the ACLU defending someone that liberals always point out as an example of how the RIGHT is extremist and anti-gay (even though Phelps is a known Democrat contributor and every conservative of note has distanced themselves from him as much as possible)? We know it's not because the left loves Fred Phelps. So there must be another reason behind it, and the stated reason that they're protecting freedom of speech is laughable, considering their track record when it comes to protecting the freedom of speech of actual conservatives.
Borealis said:As the post I quoted points out, it's the PROTESTS that must be protected. Why? Because the left lives for protests. The only thing they are any good at these days is protesting. And if it becomes illegal to protest against military funerals (even if for such an odious reason as Phelpsian hatred), they might find themselves limited in how THEY can protest, too. They might even have to follow RULES, UN forbid. Such a potential threat to their weapon of last resort must be stopped, no matter the cost. And that's why the ACLU is stepping in to defend a piece of human toxic waste like Phelps. Otherwise, there is no way they would even take a sniff at helping their poster-child for right-wing intolerance.
MachZer0 said:So you support Fred Phelps in this case? Do you consider yourself part of the Left?
Borealis said:Wait a minute. Phelps is clearly preaching HATE speech, quite literally. His website includes 'hate' in the title. I thought that hate speech was frowned upon by liberals of all stripes (except hatred of Bush and Israel, of course). Now suddenly the party of total tolerance is trying to live up to its billing? Lousy example case for that, I'd say.
So what's the point of the ACLU defending someone that liberals always point out as an example of how the RIGHT is extremist and anti-gay (even though Phelps is a known Democrat contributor and every conservative of note has distanced themselves from him as much as possible)? We know it's not because the left loves Fred Phelps. So there must be another reason behind it, and the stated reason that they're protecting freedom of speech is laughable, considering their track record when it comes to protecting the freedom of speech of actual conservatives.
As the post I quoted points out, it's the PROTESTS that must be protected. Why? Because the left lives for protests. The only thing they are any good at these days is protesting. And if it becomes illegal to protest against military funerals (even if for such an odious reason as Phelpsian hatred), they might find themselves limited in how THEY can protest, too. They might even have to follow RULES, UN forbid. Such a potential threat to their weapon of last resort must be stopped, no matter the cost. And that's why the ACLU is stepping in to defend a piece of human toxic waste like Phelps. Otherwise, there is no way they would even take a sniff at helping their poster-child for right-wing intolerance.
Borealis said:Wait a minute. Phelps is clearly preaching HATE speech, quite literally. His website includes 'hate' in the title. I thought that hate speech was frowned upon by liberals of all stripes (except hatred of Bush and Israel, of course). Now suddenly the party of total tolerance is trying to live up to its billing? Lousy example case for that, I'd say.
So what's the point of the ACLU defending someone that liberals always point out as an example of how the RIGHT is extremist and anti-gay (even though Phelps is a known Democrat contributor and every conservative of note has distanced themselves from him as much as possible)? We know it's not because the left loves Fred Phelps. So there must be another reason behind it, and the stated reason that they're protecting freedom of speech is laughable, considering their track record when it comes to protecting the freedom of speech of actual conservatives.
As the post I quoted points out, it's the PROTESTS that must be protected.
Why? Because the left lives for protests. The only thing they are any good at these days is protesting. And if it becomes illegal to protest against military funerals (even if for such an odious reason as Phelpsian hatred), they might find themselves limited in how THEY can protest, too. They might even have to follow RULES, UN forbid. Such a potential threat to their weapon of last resort must be stopped, no matter the cost. And that's why the ACLU is stepping in to defend a piece of human toxic waste like Phelps. Otherwise, there is no way they would even take a sniff at helping their poster-child for right-wing intolerance.
Wait a minute. Phelps is clearly preaching HATE speech, quite literally. His website includes 'hate' in the title. I thought that hate speech was frowned upon by liberals of all stripes (except hatred of Bush and Israel, of course). Now suddenly the party of total tolerance is trying to live up to its billing? Lousy example case for that, I'd say.
So what's the point of the ACLU defending someone that liberals always point out as an example of how the RIGHT is extremist and anti-gay (even though Phelps is a known Democrat contributor and every conservative of note has distanced themselves from him as much as possible)? We know it's not because the left loves Fred Phelps. So there must be another reason behind it, and the stated reason that they're protecting freedom of speech is laughable, considering their track record when it comes to protecting the freedom of speech of actual conservatives.
As the post I quoted points out, it's the PROTESTS that must be protected. Why? Because the left lives for protests. The only thing they are any good at these days is protesting. And if it becomes illegal to protest against military funerals (even if for such an odious reason as Phelpsian hatred), they might find themselves limited in how THEY can protest, too. They might even have to follow RULES, UN forbid. Such a potential threat to their weapon of last resort must be stopped, no matter the cost. And that's why the ACLU is stepping in to defend a piece of human toxic waste like Phelps. Otherwise, there is no way they would even take a sniff at helping their poster-child for right-wing intolerance.
Here, we see that this act is only enforcable at important cemetaries. These cemetaries are the final resting place primarily of veterans, U.S. military personnel, and their spouses.Sec. 2413. Prohibition on certain demonstrations at cemeteries under control of the National Cemetery Administration and at Arlington National Cemetery.
Here, we find that demonstrations may be carried out with approval.(a) Prohibition.--No person may carry out--
(1) a demonstration on the property of a cemetery under the control of the National Cemetery Administration or on the property of Arlington National Cemetery unless the demonstration has been approved by the cemetery superintendent or the director of the property on which the cemetery is located; or
(2) with respect to such a cemetery, a demonstration during the period beginning 60 minutes before and ending 60 minutes after a funeral, memorial service, or ceremony is held, any part of which demonstration--
(A)(i) takes place within 150 feet of a road, pathway, or other route of ingress to or egress from such cemetery property; and
(ii) includes, as part of such demonstration, any individual willfully making or assisting in the making of any noise or diversion that disturbs or tends to disturb the peace or good order of the funeral, memorial service, or ceremony; or
(B) is within 300 feet of such cemetery and impedes the access to or egress from such cemetery.(b) Demonstration.--For purposes of this section, the term`demonstration' includes the following:
(1) Any picketing or similar conduct.
(2) Any oration, speech, use of sound amplification equipment or device, or similar conduct that is not part of a funeral, memorial service, or ceremony.
(3) The display of any placard, banner, flag, or similar device, unless such a display is part of a funeral, memorial service, or ceremony.
(4) The distribution of any handbill, pamphlet, leaflet, or other written or printed matter other than a program distributed as part of a funeral, memorial service, or ceremony.''.
It is the sense of Congress that each State should enact legislation to restrict demonstrations near any military funeral.
mhatten said:They are not defending him they are defending free speech.
mhatten said:but who exactly is the left. Of course we know the ACLu will defend those whose freedom of speech is violated so it isn't them unless defending the consitituion is a "left" thing to do.
Mach said:I think you got the picture
xMinionX said:"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire
Clear enough?
I doubt anyone in the ACLU is kissing Phelps boots, but I have great respect for them in taking on this case. It's easy to defend the people you agree with. It's harder to defend those you disagree with, and defending someone like Phelps (who, like it or not, has a right to his free speech) must be very very hard.
I'm sure that the ACLU has no difficulty whatsoever in defending Phelp's First Amendment rights. Contrary to many on the right, the ACLU does not promote any ideology (not so for the ACLJ). Its attorneys are perfectly capable of separating any personal opinion from their professional duties.xMinionX said:I doubt anyone in the ACLU is kissing Phelps boots, but I have great respect for them in taking on this case. It's easy to defend the people you agree with. It's harder to defend those you disagree with, and defending someone like Phelps (who, like it or not, has a right to his free speech) must be very very hard.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?