The Illegal Invasion Problem

TrustAndObey · Jun 6, 2007

mjona3 said:
Why does there need to be some voting against the laws of our country when our president can just ignore them at his own will? This is a non-issue. I do think that it is possible that laws and actions taken against terrorists now will be taken against religious people (like adventists) in the future. We have lost an awful lot of freedom to this administration, and people just ignore it as long as it isn't their freedom being lost.

JM

I actually wrote a song about that very thing. I just can't sing.

TrustAndObey · Jun 6, 2007

TrustAndObey · Jun 6, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIYVaRGuKEA

Freudian slip?

Adventist Dissident · Jun 6, 2007

honorthesabbath said:
ICE?--And why should we do all that for another soverign nation with as much natural resource as our own?

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It is in our own best intrest to have Mexico be up on its feet. they would be a good trading partner and people would stop coming accross the boarder.

there are 106 million mexican citizens and as time goes by there will only be more. If they don't get the help they need we will have a bigger problem in the future.

think about it this way. you are a rich person (us) and you have a poor neighbor (mexico) with a big family and no way to feed them. The Poor neighbor keeps telling his kids to break into the Rich persons house, because they have extra and we are starving. they won't mind. We need to survive. people will violate their values to get there needs met.

If Mexicans want a better life (and I don't blame them)-why not protest and march in their OWN country against their OWN government. What gives them the 'right' to come to this country and DEMAND our goverment to give them what belongs to us?

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because they might get shot. they are not a educated and not as free as we are. I am not talking a free hand out, but a hand up.

Have you ever read the immigration laws of Mexico? Do you realize that if 20 million American's invaded Mexico and took to the streets DEMANDING welfare from them--that we would be shot on the spot?

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so would the mexicans that is why the government must do it and put polotical pressure and incentive to do so. Yes i have read mexican immigration law

You talk about stricter boarder patrols--lol--can you say Compean and Rameros? You remember them don't you? The two border cops who are now in prison, sentenced to 11 and 12 YEARS for doing their jobs in trying to stop a Mexican drug runner coming into here? Oh and by the way--now our Attorney General is going to allow this thug to SUE the USA for 'damages' he claims he suffered from these two men to the tune of 6 MILLION dollars? OUR DOLLARS!

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this is why we need to make sure we have a mexican economy that can take care of it's self

We have immigration laws folks--why is our treasonous President and his goonies not upholding those laws as they PLEDGED to do when they placed their hands of the bible and SWORE to uphold the CONSTITUTION?

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the economy

Folks--why aren't WE THE PEOPLE in the streets DEMANDING that our leaders do the job we sent them to Washington to do? They have betrayed us.

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What do you propose happen.???

TrustAndObey · Jun 6, 2007

We've had a lot of hospitals go bankrupt because of illegal immigrants.

Don't we send a lot of aid to Mexico?

Adventist Dissident · Jun 6, 2007

TrustAndObey said:
We've had a lot of hospitals go bankrupt because of illegal immigrants.

Don't we send a lot of aid to Mexico?

all the more reason to get them legal status., Then they can be taxed and pay their fair share. It not the way I would want to do it but I don't think there is any other choice.

I don't know how much foregin-aid we give

Adventist Dissident · Jun 6, 2007

http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/aid.html

aid in 2004 33+ mill about .31 cents per mexican citizen
aid in 2005 31+ mill about .29 cents per mexican citizen

thecountrydoc · Jun 7, 2007

Hello to all who have read or posted to this thread.

While each part of this dicussion has merit, may I suggest that there is a much larger problem involved here than just illegal immigration. Let me explain.

Prior to every dictatorship since the dawn of recorded history has come some form of economic chaos and/or collapes. That has always been true whether in times of long ago or the last third world dictator to take power. History has also proven over and over again that people are willing to sacrafice presonal freedoms for hoped for economic stability and security. It has never worked, but they keep making the same mistake.

The ultimate example of this phenomnon was Adolf Hitler. The first time he ran for public office he got twelve thousand votes. Just a short time later, as Germany stood on the brink of bankruptcy, he got twelve million votes and we all know the rest of that story.

The U.S. may not be bankrupt, but it certainly has economic problems of large preportions. Just to metion a few; Immigration, oil prices, the cost of war, rising cost of every food source, corporate failures, personal bankruptcy at an all time high, national debt at an all time high, the standard of living between the "haves" and the "have nots" at the greatest despairity since the 'great depression', the inceadable cost of natural disasters . I could go on and on, but I think you are getting the picture.

Add to that the fact that there is aleady enough legislation on the books that all it would take is the stroke of a pen and we would, for all intents and purposes, be living in a dictatorshp/police state. In the "interest" of public welfare and national security a national Sunday law could be put into effect with lightning speed.

So yes, illigel immegration is a very big problem (which will never addressed in the light of common sense and be of satisfaction to all) but it is only "one tree in the forrest" when we consider all the elements that will help pass a national Sunday law.

There is yet one more element to all this that should not be overlooked, and that is found in Rev. 13:16,17.

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

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I would pray that each will readly see the how economics will become a petext for the need of a Sunday law, not just an attempt to apease an angry God for the woes that are to come and are coming upon this nation.

We as Sabath-keepers need to BE ready each day, not just GETTING ready.

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surly I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Rev. 22:20.

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Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

honorthesabbath · Jun 8, 2007

Well folks--thank God the American people got a reprive from the Senate today! Not that those traitors didn't want to vote those illegals amnesty--but because of the efforts of the grass roots organizations--our input slowed them down. Millions of phones calls--faxes-and e-mails were sent to our Senators DEMANDING that the immigration laws we already have be obeyed!

You see--the main stream media refuse to show the American's protests against amnesty--they will only show the Mexicans marches demanding it.

To be honest--at times I really didn't think our efforts would pay off-most of our leaders --once elected to office--just pay no attention to their constituents--but this time they did!!!

I also believe that our nations Mayors should be patted on their backs for taking the bold stands they have taken against those who employ and rent to illegals. Seems that every time these SOVEREIGN leaders vote to stem the tide--some FEDERAL court slaps injunctions on them to aid the illegals.

So now God has given us more time to get to more Americans to fight this invasion. I urge ALL of you to take a stand--contact your representatives and DEMAND that no amnesty be granted and no SS benefits should be given.

Please take advantage of this 'lull' in the action--because you can bet--this evil bill won't go away. Get active in your community and fight for the future of our children and grand-children. The kind of America they inherit is up to YOU!

OntheDL · Jun 8, 2007

I'm actually caught in the middle on this matter. I'm friends with some illegal immigrants.

They are very much like all of us or our anscestors, came here at one point looking for a better life.

Not everyone has a way to come 'legally'. I'm not just speaking of the Latinos. If you don't have a direct family member here (father-mother, son-daughter), or passed test and have been accepted into colleges, or being sponsored to come to work because of 'special' skills, you will probably never receive a visa with a work permit.

What's wrong with granting worker's visa of 3-5 years? Americans aren't going to work in car washes, hotels... They are too good to do such jobs. Someone has to do them. Who are we to say: 'that's it, the door is closed. No more.'

I know alot of illegal paid thousand of dollars in fee to the smugglers to take a dangerous trip to come here. Their dreams and future depends on it. For them, America is still the land of opportunity.

Isn't that the spirit of America? A refuge for ALL who wishes to come for economic, political or religious reasons, regardless?

I have seen families being torn apart. When one parent is deported or going back, they won't see they children for years. Why not give amnesty to those have been for a long time and have family and children here? They don't deserve health care when they get sick? Most illegals work, to repay the fee and support their family. That's what they came here for. They are different from the homeless. Give them work visas, have them work on the book, pay tax and receive fair benefits.

This is the same argument I have about the terrorists. "America is great because America is good. When America ceases to be good, America ceases to be great". America is blessed is not because of the land, the law or the system. It's because the people are righteous and just. When Israel was right with God, it had no enemies.

Think about it, we are all immigrants. This land belonged to the indians who were slaughtered to make room for the immigrants. What if your grandfather or grandmother came here illegally? Did you know that many killed themselves on Ellis Island rather than being forced to go back? Many of them today still risk their lives coming to America.

When the Pilgrams landed on the shores, did the Indians ask them to sign a legal paper to promise to learn the native indianlanguage and to never kill them and take the land? No. They brought food out for them. People come in search of a better life. You got yours. Let them.

DanPev · Jun 9, 2007

Yes, yes, yes! I totally agree! RIGHT ON!

JonMiller · Jun 9, 2007

Yeah, I personally think we should make all immegration legal. As far as the money thing goes, aren't we instructed to aid the less fortunate? The only real issue is that these people are illegal, if they were to stop being illegal, everything would be good.

JM

TrustAndObey · Jun 9, 2007

OntheDL said:
I'm actually caught in the middle on this matter. I'm friends with some illegal immigrants.

They are very much like all of us or our anscestors, came here at one point looking for a better life.

Not everyone has a way to come 'legally'. I'm not just speaking of the Latinos. If you don't have a direct family member here (father-mother, son-daughter), or passed test and have been accepted into colleges, or being sponsored to come to work because of 'special' skills, you will probably never receive a visa with a work permit.

What's wrong with granting worker's visa of 3-5 years? Americans aren't going to work in car washes, hotels... They are too good to do such jobs. Someone has to do them. Who are we to say: 'that's it, the door is closed. No more.'

I've become friends with EVERY, and I do mean every, immigrant from Mexico that I've met at school or worked with. I honestly couldn't tell you if they were legal or not, because they never talked about it.

I used to do personnel for the company I worked for. There were times when obviously bogus SS#s came my way, and I'd have to tell them that it would never pass. It was pretty sad considering I know they paid a good chunk of money for that number.

A bad experience I had is that when I tried to sell my first house, a family said they'd take it, so I took down my sign and starting making preparations to move to Colorado with my husband. The bank called me and told me that the family buying it were here illegally and the dad had been using his cousin's SS# and had only gotten his OWN number 4 months earlier, so he didn't qualify. That caused a lot of problems for me.

I agree that they probably will have a better life in America than they would in Mexico, but herein lies the problem......

We are supposed to punish people for breaking the laws of our government, not reward them. If our hospitals go bankrupt, and our Social Security goes bust, then America isn't going to be that great of a place to live either. We'll all be trying to get to Mexico for a better life.

Where I live, there are a lot of chicken plants (Tyson Foods). Don Tyson had signs put just across the Mexican border that basically said "Come to NW Arkansas! We'll guarantee you a job and a place to life."

Lots of people came (NW Arkansas has the highest population of illegal immigrants of anywhere else in this country), and our roads weren't prepared for that kind of traffic, our schools didn't have enough spots for the children (or teachers that were prepared to teach English as a second language), and we didn't have nearly enough apartments in this area for them.

It caused a huge amount of problems here. It was basically forced growth, when we didn't have the funds for it.

Also, if you go to an emergency room here and you aren't bleeding from every orifice, be prepared to wait for at least 3 hours. Medicaid pays for hospital visits the same as a doctor's appointment, so immigrants use it just like a doctor's office.

I don't like generalizations, so I won't say that EVERY illegal immigrant is on Medicaid here, but when you take what you said about the TYPE of jobs they're willing/qualified to take, you have a recipe for public assistance for sure. It's money we don't HAVE and we're just going deeper and deeper into debt.

OntheDL said:
I know alot of illegal paid thousand of dollars in fee to the smugglers to take a dangerous trip to come here. Their dreams and future depends on it. For them, America is still the land of opportunity.

Isn't that the spirit of America? A refuge for ALL who wishes to come for economic, political or religious reasons, regardless?

I have seen families being torn apart. When one parent is deported or going back, they won't see they children for years. Why not give amnesty to those have been for a long time and have family and children here? They don't deserve health care when they get sick? Most illegals work, to repay the fee and support their family. That's what they came here for. They are different from the homeless. Give them work visas, have them work on the book, pay tax and receive fair benefits.

This is the same argument I have about the terrorists. "America is great because America is good. When America ceases to be good, America ceases to be great". America is blessed is not because of the land, the law or the system. It's because the people are righteous and just. When Israel was right with God, it had no enemies.

Think about it, we are all immigrants. This land belonged to the indians who were slaughtered to make room for the immigrants. What if your grandfather or grandmother came here illegally? Did you know that many killed themselves on Ellis Island rather than being forced to go back? Many of them today still risk their lives coming to America.

One thing I know for sure is that when our families first came here, they followed the rules. They HAD to.

It all sounds good, but if America is going deeper and deeper into debt, then the opportunities are going to stop for everyone.

There have to be rules. And people have to follow the rules.

Look what happened when Dog the Bounty Hounter went to Mexico to get a very dangerous criminal. Mexico certainly didn't look the other way.

And the thing is, if you go to any bank in this area on a Friday afternoon, you'd better be prepared to wait a very long time. These illegal immigrants are lined outside the doors to get money orders to send back to their families in Mexico.

Mexico is getting aid from us AND Mexican families there are receiving funds from their family members here. I just don't see that as fair.

Personally, I think every time a hospital goes bankrupt, or any time tax dollars have to pay for something (be it a public defender, whatever) then our aid over there should decrease by that amount.

If we make it a SHARED problem between us and Mexico then they'll have to do something about it.

OntheDL said:
When the Pilgrams landed on the shores, did the Indians ask them to sign a legal paper to promise to learn the native indianlanguage and to never kill them and take the land? No. They brought food out for them. People come in search of a better life. You got yours. Let them.

To what end though? When America doesn't have the resources anymore, then it will be a state of emergency. Why should we let it get that far?

Don't get me wrong. These are human beings we're talking about and I never disqualify them as such, but they're breaking our laws. Even scripture tells us to obey the laws of our government.

Add that to the fact that 99% of these people coming over are Catholic, and we really do have a recipe for disaster.

JonMiller · Jun 9, 2007

Look at how much poorer Mexico is than us, don't they need the help?

JM

TrustAndObey · Jun 9, 2007

mjona3 said:
Look at how much poorer Mexico is than us, don't they need the help?

JM

That brings up a really good question. Where does the money we send them GO?

If we need to bump up the amount of aid we send to keep their own people from leaving there, then that's something to look at.

But I don't think it's appropriate to look the other way when our laws are broken here.

Honestly America doesn't have the money to send to other countries, but we sure keep doing it.

If we're going to continue, why not totally bankrupt this country to do it, so we'll be just as poor? I mean, seriously, where's the limit?

JonMiller · Jun 9, 2007

I think you are being selfish, besides the fact that it is better economically for them to be here.

JM

TrustAndObey · Jun 9, 2007

mjona3 said:
I think you are being selfish, besides the fact that it is better economically for them to be here.

JM

You have a right to your opinion, just as I do to mine.

What is selfish about recognizing that illegal immigration is ruining America too?

Hospitals are going bankrupt and our taxes are getting raised so we can pay for things like that. The Land of Opportunity isn't so opportunistic anymore.

If someone is working here and receiving wages without paying taxes AND receiving Social Security benefits for it later...all while BREAKING THE LAW, then I have a right as an American citizen to speak out about it.

Our families came here and stood in long lines, learned English, and worked very hard to keep this a great country. Now our government is turning a blind eye to people wanting to come in the easy way? Why?

TrustAndObey · Jun 9, 2007

A friend of mine was side-swiped by a truck and the driver tried to run from the scene. They caught him, and he was an illegal immigrant without any car insurance.

It's a law in my state to at least have liability insurance on your vehicle, but he didn't.

Tax payer dollars paid for my friend's medical bills and she had to fight for months to get the damage to her car repaired through her own insurance (which raised her rates).

How is that type of thing better for our economy?

DRL · Jun 9, 2007

Mexico has many natural resources if they would only develop them and use their own people to develop their country.
Like I said earlier, I am an American of Mexican descent.
Mexico could be a properous country, but from what I have heard from relatives there, the wealth does not go to build up their country. It goes into the pockets of those who have the money. I love my relatives and am proud of my Mexican roots, but if they want to come here, do it legally.
My relatives grow all kinds of things. When a sister was visiting Mexico, she was told not to ask what was planted. HMMMMMM, I can only guess what it is.
Did you know the Mexican government wrote a booklet telling people how to cross the border illegally??
What to do about it?? Jesus is coming again and the only thing I can think of is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Only Jesus can change hearts, minds, souls.
DRL

OntheDL · Jun 9, 2007

I know many illegals because I play soccer with them. Honestly I do not one person who's on medicaid.

Where I live, NYC area probably has the highest concentration of Latinos legal and illegal, the few times I had to go to emergency room, I never saw a latino there. I don't think you can receive Medicaid if you are illegal. Most of them I know go to hispanic doctors who charge at a fraction.

Most people on medicaid or medicare I have seen in the hospitals were born here but aren't willing to work.

I think to say the illegals are the problem for health care and social security is oversimplifying it. Social security was designed to fail. When baby boomers reach the retirement age, the system will collapse from its own weight.

I had a fair share of traffic tickets (a lot) when I was in college. So I'm fairly familiar with the manicipal court rooms scenes. There are bad people in every group. But the vast majority of criminals in jail are people who were born here.

The Chinese immigrants built the rail road system to the west. And then the senate passed laws to deport them and closed the doors on chinese immigrants. The senate recently apologized for that. Was that injustics?

Think of it as an opportunity to witness to all these catholic people. You don't even to take a missionary trip for it.

All I'm saying is that this is a land of the immigrants. All should be welcome to come in pursuit of a better life.

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