The Gnostic Gospels

Hook · Mar 29, 2004

My stepdaughter has recently read "The DaVinci Code" and while we thought she was well grounded in her faith, we found out differently over the past several months. I understand (without reading the book) from some TV news magazines (48 hrs?) that the murder mystery is supposed to have some basis in history - specifically the gnostic gospels.

That being said, what exactly are the gnostic gospels and how does one go about debunking their so called "historical value" if there is any to begin with?

Are the gnostic gospels different (in theory) from the forms of gnosticism mentioned and footnoted in the NT?

Just curious. I felt that if someone was well grounded in their faith, they wouldn't waver in the presence of a (possible) counterfeit.

Biarien · Mar 29, 2004

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html

There's a page you may want to check out.

As for "refuting" them, check a site like CARM. I'm sure CARM or some similar site has the information you're looking for.

Biarien · Mar 29, 2004

http://www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic.htm

This is a site with general information on gnosticism. You may want to check it out.

Jesus My Wisdom · Mar 29, 2004

Hook said:
My stepdaughter has recently read "The DaVinci Code" and while we thought she was well grounded in her faith, we found out differently over the past several months. I understand (without reading the book) from some TV news magazines (48 hrs?) that the murder mystery is supposed to have some basis in history - specifically the gnostic gospels.

That being said, what exactly are the gnostic gospels and how does one go about debunking their so called "historical value" if there is any to begin with?

Are the gnostic gospels different (in theory) from the forms of gnosticism mentioned and footnoted in the NT?

Just curious. I felt that if someone was well grounded in their faith, they wouldn't waver in the presence of a (possible) counterfeit.

It is very complicated and unless you want to spend the next five or ten years studying the whole matter so that you actually know what you are talking about I suggest you try something else.

For example, Christians today claim the Gospel of Peter is Gnostic. Why? Well, if you check you will find the reasons are pretty lame.

JMW

ThaKladd · Mar 29, 2004

maybe you should read Elain Pagels book about gnosticism and the gnostic writings. It's very good.

(www)amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679724532/qid=1080589205/sr=8-2/ref=pd_ka_2/002-9307261-8864845?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

KennySe · Mar 29, 2004

Peace be with you, Hook, and to your family.I hope you will read these articles and share them with your daughter-in-law. In "part 1" below, are links to other articles specifically regarding Gnosticism.

The Peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and your family. May the Holy Spirit protect you from the lies of Dan Brown.

http://www.envoymagazine.com/planetenvoy/Review-DaVinci-part1.htm

http://www.envoymagazine.com/planetenvoy/Review-DaVinci-part2-Full.htm

www.crisismagazine.com/september2003/feature1.htm

KennySe · Mar 29, 2004

Jesus My Wisdom said:
It is very complicated and unless you want to spend the next five or ten years studying the whole matter so that you actually know what you are talking about I suggest you try something else.

Is the above a message of love, in imitation of our Lord Jesus Christ, JMW?

For example, Christians today claim the Gospel of Peter is Gnostic. Why? Well, if you check you will find the reasons are pretty lame.

Facts to back up your claim would be greatly appreciated.

Sidenote: in which Christian denomination do you worship Jesus Christ as God the Son?

Jesus My Wisdom · Mar 29, 2004

KennySe said:
Is the above a message of love, in imitation of our Lord Jesus Christ, JMW?

Facts to back up your claim would be greatly appreciated.

Well try this. Read the Gospel of Peter and try to figure out why it might be "Gnostic." I can't even figure out why the Gospel of Thomas is Gnostic yet. As far as I can tell, people see some different sayings of Jesus they have not seen before and in fear want to lay a bad label on it. But Jesus says some remarkably weird things in our four gospels. So why should we quickly reject some strange sayings just because they have not been a part of our tradition? That could be the reason eh?

Funny thing. Some of our earliest fragments of the gospel of John were found in the same area. Gnostic?

Sidenote: in which Christian denomination do you worship Jesus Christ as God the Son?

I don't belong to denominations. It necessarily means following a creed and putting one's self in bondage to that creed. I follow Christ.

JMW

jbarcher · Mar 29, 2004

Thanks for the links, Kenny!

Biarien · Mar 29, 2004

sweetsoulsong said:
Thanks for the links, Kenny!

What about the rest of us who provided links?

Kester Pelagius · Mar 30, 2004

Greetings,

Just read through this thread and decided to register.

Howdy.

Hook said:
Are the gnostic gospels different (in theory) from the forms of gnosticism mentioned and footnoted in the NT?

What is defined as "Gnostic" appears to change from source to source. To confuse matters further it would appear that, over the centuries, this term has been applied to widely different sects ranging from Cathars to Mandeans.

For book references/research I would suggest the following:

The Other Bible: Ancient Alternative Scriptures; ed. Willis Barnstone, HarperSanFransico; ISBN 0-06-250031-9

The Nag Hammadi Library; ed. James M. Robinson, HarperCollins; ISBN 0-06-066935-7

Or you can just go to the following web site:

[URL removed]

Hook · Mar 30, 2004

Many thanks to all who responded and all who provided links. I hope I have the energy and time to do more than skim through all the information.

ChrisB · Mar 30, 2004

My understanding of the reasoning behind the classification of the Gospel of Peter as Gnostic is that it claims that Jesus did not suffer pain on the cross, thus making him not fully human. This was a tenet of the Docetic branch of Gnosticism.

Mr.Cheese · Apr 2, 2004

That book...
Consider this axiom: "What is gratuitously asserted can be gratuitously denied."
I read that in a book by John Meier regarding the absolute fantastical nonsense that is written in Jesus studies.

The DaVinci Code is fiction, and for good reason.
If it was anything else, Mr. Brown would have published it as such. Far more ridiculous things have been published as non-fiction.

Mr.Cheese · Apr 2, 2004

Oh. I didn't read the whole OP.

The Gnostic Gospels are dependent on teh 4 Gospels in the Christian Canon. Only the confused John Dominic Crossan and his cronies think differently.
So they are conflations containing heretical material.

Their only value is the information they offer us regarding Gnosticism in the early centuries.
They possess absolutely no value whatsoever for studies on Jesus. Some my try to say differently, but they are mistaken.

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