The Flood

yeshuasavedme · Feb 25, 2011

iambeeman said:
Going back a bit, but in a culture where people marry young and have as many children as God blesses them with marring your great great aunt isn't that far fetched. I myself married my 2nd cousins grand daughter (we didn't know it till we were engaged and the doctors said it was OK) and she is 2 years older than her youngest uncle. Just hang out in a culture where large families are the norm and you'll find marring your great great relative isn't a big deal not common to be sure but not impossible.

not that I expect a response but y'all should be told this.

Yep.
And when mankind lived longer lives, and had children during the later years, the choices for marrying could span several generations who were all contemporary, as we see in Jacob's seed.

Shem died at age 600 years, when Jacob was 50 years, and while Jacob lived with him, according to the history of the Patriarchs recorded as the Book of Jasher. A couple of Jacob's sons married back in that line to the sixth generation, but as they were contemporaries, the ages of the husbands and wives were not so greatly different.
My dad and mom were both descended from a man who had two wives and 19 children [he was widowed and remarried], and Dad told me once that they were eighth cousins, but he didn't count "removals" and they were not straight eighth cousins, but perhaps more like second cousins and removed a few times -I haven't done the record, just guessing.

Papias · Feb 26, 2011

YeshuaSM wrote:

Originally Posted by Papias

Sperm have souls?
Papias

Click to expand...

Not until the spirit of the Adam "being" causes the seed to come "to fruit" in the egg. Then the Adam spirit/force of its being, builds the house, biblically speaking, for the conceived soul to be housed in.
We are a soul, and spoken of as being seed in the loins of our fathers, who will come to fruit in our season.
.......The male carries the seed bag. The spirit of the Adam kind is the force that causes the seed to come to fruit, and that is done by that spirit according to the Book of Life, and what is written in it.

So how exactly are you saying that works? Say a couple has sex in New York on wednesday, after which the husband leaves on a business trip to California. The sperm are in the woman for 2-3 days before one unites with the egg on friday. So where was the soul on thursday? Still in the husband's loins in California, so then on friday it flew across nebraska to get to NY by friday? How fast can souls fly? Or in the sperm? If so, then which of the 50 million sperm was it in? What happened to the souls in the other 49.99999 million sperm? Did those souls die?

Help me out here, please....

Jasher is true history. Maccabees is also true history.

And the Pope is truly God's representative here on Earth, who can speak infallibly. (Do you agree?)

The point is that we different Christians have different things we think are from God, and things that we think are just human. I think Jasher is simply human legends. If I were to accept it, then what would stop me from accepting the book of Mormon as the newest scriptural word of God?

Papias

yeshuasavedme · Feb 26, 2011

The spirit of Adam begins building the house for the soul which comes into its being at the moment of conception. And, according to the Book of Life, that soul was already ordained to come into its being at the pre-appointed time, by the command to the Adam spirit given by the Creator of it in the beginning, and bounded by the days written in the Book of Life. -did you know the Word of God teaches that?
It is the same principle for any fruit. It is the spirit of the created kind which forms the house for the "come to fruit" seed, at conception. Adam seed is called "fruit of the womb", when it comes to conception, but the Adam seed/souls who have come into their being were all written in the Book of Life before the seed was even created and put in the loins of the first father, according to the Word of God.

Papias said:
I think Jasher is simply human legends. Papias

The Book of Jasher correlates with the Tenach and with the Book of Enoch. Jasher is just true history that fills in the things mentioned by Moses and others in the Tenach and NT, but not explained anew, because they were already laid down as foundations of the histories collected, from the writings of the ancients, and redacted in the "Record of the Upright"="Book of Jasher"; and which were redacted even more by Moses in the Torah, because he had already written about it in that collected record -and I do believe Moses was the author and that Joshua ended it after Moses' death, after which the histories continued in:
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
Samuel [1@2]
Kings [1@2] -and Chronicles
Ezra
Nehemiah
Esther
Maccabees
Acts
Josephus
-and so on.

The Dead Sea Scrolls manuscripts give evidence that the Patriarchs all wrote their own histories and main events down, for their posterity. Moses had access to all that, as a son of Levi through Jochebed, for in the DSS we learn that the tribes all knew what God was doing and was going to do through them, since the time Abraham was elected as the promised "plant" through whom the Messiah would come, as promised in Enoch's revelations.

That other "book" you mentioned does not agree with anything written in the Tenach, the NT, the Book of Enoch, or the Book of Jasher, so there is no comparison to be made.

Mikecpking · Feb 26, 2011

yeshuasavedme said:
The spirit of Adam begins building the house for the soul which comes into its being at the moment of conception. And, according to the Book of Life, that soul was already ordained to come into its being at the pre-appointed time, by the command to the Adam spirit given by the Creator of it in the beginning, and bounded by the days written in the Book of Life. -did you know the Word of God teaches that?
It is the same principle for any fruit. It is the spirit of the created kind which forms the house for the "come to fruit" seed, at conception. Adam seed is called "fruit of the womb", when it comes to conception, but the Adam seed/souls who have come into their being were all written in the Book of Life before the seed was even created and put in the loins of the first father, according to the Word of God.

The Book of Jasher correlates with the Tenach and with the Book of Enoch. Jasher is just true history that fills in the things mentioned by Moses and others in the Tenach and NT, but not explained anew, because they were already laid down as foundations of the histories collected, from the writings of the ancients, and redacted in the "Record of the Upright"="Book of Jasher"; and which were redacted even more by Moses in the Torah, because he had already written about it in that collected record -and I do believe Moses was the author and that Joshua ended it after Moses' death, after which the histories continued in:
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
Samuel [1@2]
Kings [1@2] -and Chronicles
Ezra
Nehemiah
Esther
Maccabees
Acts
Josephus
-and so on.

The Dead Sea Scrolls manuscripts give evidence that the Patriarchs all wrote their own histories and main events down, for their posterity. Moses had access to all that, as a son of Levi through Jochebed, for in the DSS we learn that the tribes all knew what God was doing and was going to do through them, since the time Abraham was elected as the promised "plant" through whom the Messiah would come, as promised in Enoch's revelations.

That other "book" you mentioned does not agree with anything written in the Tenach, the NT, the Book of Enoch, or the Book of Jasher, so there is no comparison to be made.

Out of interest, what do you think a soul is?

yeshuasavedme · Feb 26, 2011

The seed in the loins of Adam were "living seed" meaning that they were to come forth as sons of God of the human being kind, all named in the Book of Life, to come into their being in their pre-appointed season.
Every child conceived"הרה harah " is Adam seed, come into their "being/their spirit/kind", their "life"

Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night [in which] it was said, There is a man child conceived/הרה harah .
Eve was named"חוה"Eve because she was the "אם/em"-"ma" [Hebrew root etymons flipped] of the "חי"seed come into הרה harah
The Hebrew wordהרה is the same word in Job 3 and Genesis 3:20. -So [tongue in cheek] conception of a pre-ordained soul, come to "life/to being" in Adam, in its pre-appointed season, is a big הרה/Hurrah! in heaven

yeshuasavedme · Feb 26, 2011

Mikecpking said:
Out of interest, what do you think a soul is?

I'm a soul, you're a soul. We have a house to live in, "stretched out/beat out" for us in the womb, by the Adam spirit, which got to work at conception, and "beat out" the flesh body for us/a soul, to indwell. -That is Bible language, in its Hebrew original, for the "beating out/stretching out" of the body of our flesh by the Adam spirit which we are/ have the remnant/share of when we "come into our being".
Have you ever watched a speeded up film of the conception of a human being and watched the Adam spirit at work "beating out/stretching out" the "house" for a soul's "dwelling"?
-Or, for that matter, have you ever watched a speeded up, time lapse, film of any seed come into its own "being" at the time there was "conception?

Mikecpking · Feb 26, 2011

yeshuasavedme said:
I'm a soul, you're a soul. We have a house to live in, "stretched out/beat out" for us in the womb, by the Adam spirit, which got to work at conception, and "beat out" the flesh body for us/a soul, to indwell. -That is Bible language, in its Hebrew original, for the "beating out/stretching out" of the body of our flesh by the Adam spirit which we are/ have the remnant/share of when we "come into our being".
Have you ever watched a speeded up film of the conception of a human being and watched the Adam spirit at work "beating out/stretching out" the "house" for a soul's "dwelling"?
-Or, for that matter, have you ever watched a speeded up, time lapse, film of any seed come into its own "being" at the time there was "conception?

Hi,
I know I am a soul, but what do you think 'it' is?

yeshuasavedme · Feb 26, 2011

Mikecpking said:
Hi,
I know I am a soul, but what do you think 'it' is?

It's "You", "it's me". We are souls, which is translated as "persons" also, in the Word. The body is not "us", but the house we live in, and function in our created kind, in.
What we are is a human being "living soul", and while in our bodies we are graciously given the breath of "LIFE/YHWH" [as all living souls of the spirits of all flesh on earth also are graciously given]. If we depart our bodies, we look like ourselves, and we have the same form out of the human body as we do in it [tongues, eyes, ears, etc], as we see in Luke 16 -but we are not infirm and aged in flesh, when we are outside the body.
Soul is used interchangeably with spirit in the Word, but the Adam spirit we have the residue of[Malachi 2:15], is the kind we are, and the soul is our individual self, in the kind, and the body of flesh is what we have as our house, for our soul to live in, in our being/kind/spirit.

You might like to listen to Ian McCormack's testimony of dying and what it was like as a disembodied soul, until he was returned to his body after meeting Jesus.
Ian McCormack - Heaven Hell and the Box Jellyfish

gluadys · Feb 26, 2011

yeshuasavedme said:
I searched. Haran is in Turkey.
Beehive, Haran (Turkey) - Images

I will wait for how you think it does not "square".
Thanks,
Terrie

Terah and his family originally lived in or near Ur of the Chaldees (modern Iran, known historically as Persia). It is likely that his ancestors, such as Shem and Eber also lived here or somewhere in the area designated by the Plain of Shinar which was likely in Mesopotamia.

In Genesis 11:31 there is a list of those who accompanied Terah to Haran. It does not include any ancestors of Terah. If any distinguished ancestors of Terah were part of this group it is unthinkable they would not be mentioned for they would outrank Terah in importance.

Conclusion: at this time, at least, Shem and Eber remained in Ur of the Chaldees or at least in Mesopotamia.

When did they change their residence?

Furthermore, when Jacob goes to Haran, the head of the household in Haran is Laman son of Nahor, son of Terah. This would not be possible if Jacob lived with Shem, for in that case the head of the house would be Shem, not his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson. Shem, therefore is not in Haran, nor in Canaan. Presumably he is still in Ur of the Chaldees.

yeshuasavedme · Feb 26, 2011

gluadys said:
Terah and his family originally lived in or near Ur of the Chaldees (modern Iran, known historically as Persia). It is likely that his ancestors, such as Shem and Eber also lived here or somewhere in the area designated by the Plain of Shinar which was likely in Mesopotamia.

In Genesis 11:31 there is a list of those who accompanied Terah to Haran. It does not include any ancestors of Terah. If any distinguished ancestors of Terah were part of this group it is unthinkable they would not be mentioned for they would outrank Terah in importance.

Conclusion: at this time, at least, Shem and Eber remained in Ur of the Chaldees or at least in Mesopotamia.

When did they change their residence?

Furthermore, when Jacob goes to Haran, the head of the household in Haran is Laman son of Nahor, son of Terah. This would not be possible if Jacob lived with Shem, for in that case the head of the house would be Shem, not his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson. Shem, therefore is not in Haran, nor in Canaan. Presumably he is still in Ur of the Chaldees.

I searched to see where Haran was, and posted that it was in Turkey -they said, but I was not looking it up in the Bible and Jasher, to trace it out. Haran seems to be Syria, a land, for Laban was a Syrian, and Abraham is also called a Syrian, and that fact had slipped my mind. Syria borders Lebanon, so...The "land of Haran" which Abraham and Terah came to was in the same place one of the sons of Shem settled -Aram/Syria.
Aram can be the same word as Haran.

Going backwards:
When Jacob went to Haran, he was 69 years old and Terah was dead. Shem had died when Jacob was 50 years old, at 600 years age.
Terah was not living with or nearby Shem or Noah when Abraham went to hide out from Nimrod with them. Terah was a worshiper of idols, and "was not under the counsel of Noah and Shem", but was serving Nimrod, who was wicked.

Nimrod had already been in on, and led, the rebellion of the building of the Tower of Babel, which fell two years before Abraham returned to his father, at age 49, when he left Noah and Shem's house where he had hidden from Nimrod since age 10.

After coming to his father's house, and destroying his idols, Abraham was arrested and put in "the fire/owr [ur] of Kasdim, which was connected to Babel [Sumeria],
God preserved him.

Two years later, Abraham went to Noah and Shem's house, from there, to flee Nimrod again. They did not live in the area of the "fire/owr/ur of the Kasdim", which was in "Babel".

Jasher Chapter 12 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887
And at the expiration of two years from Abram's going out of the fire, that is in the fifty-second year of his life, behold king Nimrod sat in Babel upon the throne, and the king fell asleep and dreamed that he was standing with his troops and hosts in a valley opposite the king's furnace. ...
...
And Eliezer said to Abram, Hasten, rise up and save thy soul, that thou mayest not die through the hands of the king, for thus did he see in a dream concerning thee, and thus did Anuki interpret it, and thus also did Anuki advise the king concerning thee.
61

And Abram hearkened to the voice of Eliezer, and Abram hastened and ran for safety to the house of Noah and his son Shem, and he concealed himself there and found a place of safety; and the king's servants came to Abram's house to seek him, but they could not find him, and they searched through out the country and he was not to be found, and they went and searched in every direction and he was not to be met with.
62

And when the king's servants could not find Abram they returned to the king, but the king's anger against Abram was stilled, as they did not find him, and the king drove from his mind this matter concerning Abram.
63

And Abram was concealed in Noah's house for one month, until the king had forgotten this matter, but Abram was still afraid of the king; and Terah came to see Abram his son secretly in the house of Noah, and Terah was very great in the eyes of the king.
...
Now therefore hearken to my voice, and let us arise and go to the land of Canaan, out of the reach of injury from Nimrod; and serve thou the Lord who created thee in the earth and it will be well with thee; and cast away all the vain things which thou pursuest.
69

And Abram ceased to speak, when Noah and his son Shem answered Terah, saying, True is the word which Abram hath said unto thee.
70

And Terah hearkened to the voice of his son Abram, and Terah did all that Abram said, for this was from the Lord, that the king should not cause Abram's death.

And Terah took his son Abram and his grandson Lot, the son of Haran, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, the wife of his son Abram, and all the souls of his household and went with them from Ur Casdim to go to the land of Canaan. And when they came as far as the land of Haran they remained there, for it was exceedingly good land for pasture, and of sufficient extent for those who accompanied them.
2

And the people of the land of Haran saw that Abram was good and upright with God and men, and that the Lord his God was with him, and some of the people of the land of Haran came and joined Abram, and he taught them the instruction of the Lord and his ways; and these men remained with Abram in his house and they adhered to him.
3

And Abram remained in the land three years, and at the expiration of three years the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him; I am the Lord who brought thee forth from Ur Casdim, and delivered thee from the hands of all thine enemies.
4

And now therefore if thou wilt hearken to my voice and keep my commandments, my statutes and my laws, then will I cause thy enemies to fall before thee, and I will multiply thy seed like the stars of heaven, and I will send my blessing upon all the works of thy hands, and thou shalt lack nothing.
5

Arise now, take thy wife and all belonging to thee and go to the land of Canaan and remain there, and I will there be unto thee for a God, and I will bless thee. And Abram rose and took his wife and all belonging to him, and he went to the land of Canaan as the Lord had told him...

Later in life, when dwelling near Sodom and the cities of the plain, Abraham was met by Shem, coming back from the victory over the four kings, and Shem was the "priest of the Most high God", dwelling at Salem, which is now called Jerusalem, which is where Mount Moriah was, which is now called Mount Zion [but not Mount Zion of the northern border]

Shem is the same melche/king of zedek/righteousness, of Genesis 14, who was king of Salem and "priest of the Most High God".

http://www.speakingbible.com/jasher/B01C016.htmAnd Adonizedek king of Jerusalem, the same was Shem, went out with his men to meet Abram and his people, with bread and wine, and they remained together in the valley of Melech.
12

And Adonizedek blessed Abram, and Abram gave him a tenth from all that he had brought from the spoil of his enemies, for Adonizedek was a priest before God.
13

And all the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah who were there, with their servants, approached Abram and begged of him to return them their servants whom he had made captive, and to take unto himself all the property.

yeshuasavedme · Feb 26, 2011

gluadys said:
T

When did they change their residence?
/quote]
More for you, on Shem in "Mount Moriah", and Haran as Syria.

Jasher Chapter 26 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887
Chapter 26

1 And in the fifty-ninth year of the life of Isaac the son of Abraham, Rebecca his wife was still barren in those days.
2 And Rebecca said unto Isaac, Truly I have heard, my lord, that thy mother Sarah was barren in her days until my Lord Abraham, thy father, prayed for her and she conceived by him.
3 Now therefore stand up, pray thou also to God and he will hear thy prayer and remember us through his mercies.
4 And Isaac answered his wife Rebecca, saying, Abraham has already prayed for me to God to multiply his seed, now therefore this barrenness must proceed to us from thee.
5 And Rebecca said unto him, But arise now thou also and pray, that the Lord may hear thy prayer and grant me children, and Isaac hearkened to the words of his wife, and Isaac and his wife rose up and went to the land of Moriah to pray there and to seek the Lord, and when they had reached that place Isaac stood up and prayed to the Lord on account of his wife because she was barren.
6 And Isaac said, O Lord God of heaven and earth, whose goodness and mercies fill the earth, thou who didst take my father from his father's house and from his birthplace, and didst bring him unto this land, and didst say unto him, To thy seed will I give the land, and thou didst promise him and didst declare unto him, I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven and as the sand of the sea, now may thy words be verified which thou didst speak unto my father.
7 For thou art the Lord our God, our eyes are toward thee to give us seed of men, as thou didst promise us, for thou art the Lord our God and our eyes are directed toward thee only.
8 And the Lord heard the prayer of Isaac the son of Abraham, and the Lord was entreated of him and Rebecca his wife conceived.
9 And in about seven months after the children struggled together within her, and it pained her greatly that she was wearied on account of them, and she said to all the women who were then in the land, Did such a thing happen to you as it has to me? and they said unto her, No.

10 And she said unto them, Why am I alone in this amongst all the women that were upon earth? and she went to the land of Moriah to seek the Lord on account of this; and she went to Shem and Eber his son to make inquiries of them in this matter, and that they should seek the Lord in this thing respecting her.
11 And she also asked Abraham to seek and inquire of the Lord about all that had befallen her.
12 And they all inquired of the Lord concerning this matter, and they brought her word from the Lord and told her, Two children are in thy womb, and two nations shall rise from them; and one nation shall be stronger than the other, and the greater shall serve the younger.
13 And when her days to be delivered were completed, she knelt down, and behold there were twins in her womb, as the Lord had spoken to her.

Click to expand...

Aram/Syria, is called "east", in Numbers.
Num 23:7 And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, [saying], Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel.

Gen 25:20 And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel theSyrian of Padanaram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.
Gen 31:20 And Jacob stole away unawares to Laban the Syrian, in that he told him not that he fled.

Deu 26:5 And thou shalt speak and say before the LORD thy God, A Syrian ready to perish [was] my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous:

Assyrian · Feb 27, 2011

yeshuasavedme said:
Shem is the same melche/king of zedek/righteousness, of Genesis 14, who was king of Salem and "priest of the Most High God".

Heb 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
2 and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace.
3 He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever.
Why would the writer of Hebrews describe Shem as "without father or mother or genealogy"

Heb 7:4 See how great this man was to whom Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth of the spoils!
5 And those descendants of Levi who receive the priestly office have a commandment in the law to take tithes from the people, that is, from their brothers, though these also are descended from Abraham.
6 But this man who does not have his descent from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
7 It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by the superior.
8 In the one case tithes are received by mortal men, but in the other case, by one of whom it is testified that he lives.
9 One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham,
10 for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him.

Why try to use blessing to argue Melchizadek is greater than Abraham, when Shem was Abraham's great^8 grandfather? A simple 'honour your parents' would cover it.

Papias · Feb 27, 2011

YesuaSM wrote:

The seed in the loins of Adam were "living seed" meaning that they were to come forth as sons of God of the human being kind, all named in the Book of Life, to come into their being in their pre-appointed season.
Every child conceived"הרה harah " is Adam seed, come into their "being/their spirit/kind", their "life"

You didn't answer my question about where your "Adam soul" is at different times, and your answer above is hardly more than a repetition of your previous statements. Remember, I asked:

So how exactly are you saying that works? Say a couple has sex in New York on wednesday, after which the husband leaves on a business trip to California. The sperm are in the woman for 2-3 days before one unites with the egg on friday. So where was the soul on thursday? Still in the husband's loins in California, so then on friday it flew across nebraska to get to NY by friday? How fast can souls fly? Or in the sperm? If so, then which of the 50 million sperm was it in? What happened to the souls in the other 49.99999 million sperm? Did those souls die?

You also ignored my question:

And the Pope is truly God's representative here on Earth, who can speak infallibly. (Do you agree?)

That is especially relevant because the Pope has stated clearly that evolution is "virtually certain".

Plus, it's becoming clear that we differ on many of your positions, such as:

The idea that the books of Jasher and Enoch are holy scripture.
That these books and others must be interpreted in the your literal way in some places (though you no doubt accept non-literal interpretation in other places in your or my Bibles.
That we have a solid reason to think that:
- Cain was black, like his mother, Eve.
- Abel was red, and
- Seth was white, like his father.
- Noah's three sons were black, red, and white.
- Noah was white -so white, in fact, that his daddy, Lamech, feared that his wife had messed with the fallen angels because Noah was as white as the offspring of the fallen angels were, who took daughters of Adam.
- that there are Glowing, talking newborns: Noah, who shone brightly, lighting up the room, and spoke, praising God, when he came out of the Womb into the midwife's hands.

The Book of Jasher correlates with the Tenach and with the Book of Enoch.

Obviously it doesn't if you need to rely on it and not the Tanakh. Plus, correlating means nothing - the stories of Spider Man talk about the real city of New York (thus correlating with real history), yet I hope you see that having true facts in it doesn't make all of it true.

Papias

yeshuasavedme · Feb 27, 2011

Assyrian said:
Heb 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
2 and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace.
3 He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever.
Why would the writer of Hebrews describe Shem as "without father or mother or genealogy"

Heb 7:4 See how great this man was to whom Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth of the spoils!
5 And those descendants of Levi who receive the priestly office have a commandment in the law to take tithes from the people, that is, from their brothers, though these also are descended from Abraham.
6 But this man who does not have his descent from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
7 It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by the superior.
8 In the one case tithes are received by mortal men, but in the other case, by one of whom it is testified that he lives.
9 One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham,
10 for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him.

Why try to use blessing to argue Melchizadek is greater than Abraham, when Shem was Abraham's great^8 grandfather? A simple 'honour your parents' would cover it.

The "morphosing" of Shem in Hebrews 7, was the Holy Spirit typing him as the Son of God, who is "Firstborn of earth", which is office of high priest and king. The Jews knew Melche-Zedek was Shem, but the Holy Spirit typed Him as the Son of God, who has no mother, no father, no beginning of days nor end of life.

Shem had the office of "firstborn" of earth, which was given him by Noah, who got it from Methusaleh, who got it from Enoch....and so on, back to Seth. Shem blessed Abram with the office, and Abram blessed Isaac, Isaac blessed Jacob, and from Jacob, it ended up split, after Moses, with Levi in office of high priest, and Aaron in office of Messiah. Judah ended up with office of high king, later.
When Jesus was baptized by the Levitical priest, John, he transferred the office of High Priest and High King to Jesus, and the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a Dove and anointed Him in office of Messiah, and He ever lives, as the Everlasting Father/Firstborn of earth to all His adopted [born again] sons, who ever lives to make intercession for them before the Glory above, in the office Adam lost and the Word came in flesh to ransom the earth back to Himself and redeem the lost seed of Adam, for His own sons [whosoever will].

yeshuasavedme · Feb 27, 2011

Papias said:
You didn't answer my question about where your "Adam soul" is at different times, and your answer above is hardly more than a repetition of your previous statements.

I gave you what the Word says about it, although I did not list every single Scripture, I did reference what they teach.
Do you read the Word for yourself to discover truth or do you just assume that you know it all and there is nothing in it about anything that you don't already know?. Read my posts and see if I went beyond the Scripture or if I gave Scripture that you can search out and prove true or not true, for yourself.

Papias said:
I hope you see that having true facts in it doesn't make all of it true.

Papias

As to Enoch and Jasher [the real book of Jasher that I linked] How would you know, for yourself? Do you read and "study to show yourself approved unto God, being a workman that does not need to be ashamed", and "search the Scriptures to prove all things" for yourself, or are you an armchair critic who would never think of actually cracking the books to see if these things be so?
Again, I ask you; "how would you know"?

Papias · Feb 28, 2011

YeshuaSM wrote:

I gave you what the Word says about it, although I did not list every single Scripture, I did reference what they teach.

So for a third (fourth?) time you are ignoring these questions again? Of course I know the scripture - I've read the whole canon of the RCC.

You post verses and seem to think that they support your point, when few interpret them in the way you do. I don't know why you think your interpretation is right (or even the only interpretation allowed), when the plain words don't support it.

Since you have ignored them again, I'll repost them for your convenience:

A. So how exactly are you saying that works? Say a couple has sex in New York on wednesday, after which the husband leaves on a business trip to California. The sperm are in the woman for 2-3 days before one unites with the egg on friday. So where was the soul on thursday? Still in the husband's loins in California, so then on friday it flew across nebraska to get to NY by friday? How fast can souls fly? Or in the sperm? If so, then which of the 50 million sperm was it in? What happened to the souls in the other 49.99999 million sperm? Did those souls die?

B. And the Pope is truly God's representative here on Earth, who can speak infallibly. (Do you agree?) That is especially relevant because the Pope has stated clearly that evolution is "virtually certain".

Plus, it's becoming clear that we differ on many of your positions, such as:

C The idea that the books of Jasher and Enoch are holy scripture.
D That these books and others must be interpreted in the your literal way in some places (though you no doubt accept non-literal interpretation in other places in your or my Bibles.
That we have a solid reason to think that:
- E Cain was black, like his mother, Eve.
- F Abel was red, and
- G Seth was white, like his father.
- Noah's three sons were black, red, and white.
- H Noah was white -so white, in fact, that his daddy, Lamech, feared that his wife had messed with the fallen angels because Noah was as white as the offspring of the fallen angels were, who took daughters of Adam.
- I that there are Glowing, talking newborns: Noah, who shone brightly, lighting up the room, and spoke, praising God, when he came out of the Womb into the midwife's hands.
- J You also have posted that the earth is not a planet, and that it doesn't rotate on it's axis, and
- K That the earth doesn't orbit the sun.

Do you see that views like those above give atheists and others very clear reasons to think that Christians are just plain silly? I mean, to deny heliocentrism is something that most of Christianity got over 300 years ago, and the origin of races in Noah's sons was similarly abandoned by most Christians over 100 years ago. (plus, are you saying that Noah had another kid - maybe a daughter - who was yellow skinned? Or do the Chinese simply not exist?)

are you an armchair critic who would never think of actually cracking the books to see if these things be so? Again, I ask you; "how would you know"?

I have read Jasher and Enoch, 3rd Corinthians, the Epistle of Baranabus, and so on - and neither I nor the Catholic fathers have found them to appear inspired. have you? How about the Gospel of Peter? However, for those Christians who do see them as inspired, that's fine for them. I accept them as Christians either way.

So have you read the book of Mormon?

Papias

yeshuasavedme · Feb 28, 2011

Papias said:
Since you have ignored them again, I'll repost them for your convenience:

and I'll reply again, for your convenience, since you did not "hear" what I replied.
It is the Adam spirit which drives the seed "to be" in its being, and so when the seed leaves the loins of the father, it is driven by the Adam "residue of the Adam spirit" to bring into its being, at the exact time and season, as ordained in the Book of Life [which was written before the foundation of the earth], the soul who was ordained to come into being through the loins of the father, in its own season. And it is the Adam spirit which "builds" the house for the soul come into its being as soon as conception is achieved.
You have not answered me. Have you seen a time lapse film of the work of the invisible Adam spirit, building the house for the newly "harah" soul, by "stretching it out" after conception/Harah?

Jesus said that He sent the Holy Spirit to be God's representative on earth, and His One Church is headquartered in heaven above, and is Zion of the Spirit, which is the City of God, and who is the "mother of all the redeemed of all the ages of all the earth".
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

- Papias said:
  
  J You also have posted that the earth is not a planet, and that it doesn't rotate on it's axis, and
  [*]K That the earth doesn't orbit the sun.
  
  Click to expand...

Papias said:
Do you see that views like those above give atheists and others very clear reasons to think that Christians are just plain silly?)

I refer you to a good Roman Catholic scientist and his book, for you to learn why you can trust the Word of God about the earth not being a planet/wanderer, and why you can trust the Word of God about the sun oribiting the earth, just as the heavens and the stars within them also do, each in their own peculiar paths, and the heavens oribiting the earth once, daily, just like it has been from the beginning of this creation. -And I do have that book, "Galileo Was Wrong", and read it. It is in agreement with the Word of God.
geocentrism.com GWW

You might also be interested to know that not only did Noah praise the LORD when he came out of the womb, but that a donkey spoke, a serpent spoke, and that a baby 11 months old spoke, telling the complete story of his mother's attempted seduction of Joseph, as related in the Book of Jasher; and also that a wolf spoke, telling Jacob that she had nothing to do with any killing of Joseph, as also related in the Book of Jasher.

You might like to know that in the Word of God, lightning speaks to the Creator [Job], and the Altar before the throne in heaven speaks [Rev], and that beasts exist before the throne in heaven and come down to earth at times, who have four heads: Adam, lion, eagle, and bull, with six wings, Adam hands and calf's feet. There are many more things in the Word of God you could read about and see, if you read with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

It might also interest you to know that your own Douay-Rheims Bible tells us that "in the sun, He has set His tabernacle", and that the Septuagint also says the same, in translating that psalm -and there is so much more, you could "see"; but if you have no eyes or ears for what is in the Word, why should you believe anything that is told you about anything?

Papias · Mar 3, 2011

Yesua wrote:

and I'll reply again, for your convenience, since you did not "hear" what I replied.

I did hear you, and have read the scripture you posted, and have pointed out that I find no basis in that scripture for your interpretation. And it's not just me - millions of other Christians don't see any basis for your idea of a pure male "Adam Spirit" superceding the work that God accomplishes through natural means using the genes from both the female egg and the male sperm.

I've also pointed out that just from a logical standpoint, you seem unable to explain how your scenario is even feasible, by refusing to answer my New York question.

A. So how exactly are you saying that works? Say a couple has sex in New York on wednesday, after which the husband leaves on a business trip to California. The sperm are in the woman for 2-3 days before one unites with the egg on friday. So where was the soul on thursday? Still in the husband's loins in California, so then on friday it flew across nebraska to get to NY by friday? How fast can souls fly? Or in the sperm? If so, then which of the 50 million sperm was it in? What happened to the souls in the other 49.99999 million sperm? Did those souls die?

Why are you afraid to explain how you see the Pope? I'm not asking you to agree with me, just to state where you are.

B. And the Pope is truly God's representative here on Earth, who can speak infallibly. (Do you agree?) That is especially relevant because the Pope has stated clearly that evolution is "virtually certain".

Plus, it's becoming clear that we differ on many of your positions, such as:

C The idea that the books of Jasher and Enoch are holy scripture.
D That these books and others must be interpreted in the your literal way in some places (though you no doubt accept non-literal interpretation in other places in your or my Bibles.
That we have a solid reason to think that:
- E Cain was black, like his mother, Eve.
- F Abel was red, and
- G Seth was white, like his father.
- Noah's three sons were black, red, and white.
- H Noah was white -so white, in fact, that his daddy, Lamech, feared that his wife had messed with the fallen angels because Noah was as white as the offspring of the fallen angels were, who took daughters of Adam.
- I that there are Glowing, talking newborns: Noah, who shone brightly, lighting up the room, and spoke, praising God, when he came out of the Womb into the midwife's hands.
- J You also have posted that the earth is not a planet, and that it doesn't rotate on it's axis, and
- K That the earth doesn't orbit the sun.

I do have that book, "Galileo Was Wrong", and read it. It is in agreement with the Word of God.
geocentrism.com GWW

You might not be familiar with the history, but the idea that the Earth is stationary and orbited by the sun and stars was debunked over 300 years ago. Clinging to a literal view of that idea, even if literally described in Genesis, only holds back your faith and makes Christianity a laughingstock.

that a baby 11 months old spoke, telling the complete story of his mother's attempted seduction of Joseph, as related in the Book of Jasher; and also that a wolf spoke, telling Jacob that she had nothing to do with any killing of Joseph, as also related in the Book of Jasher.

And tell me again why I should accept the book of Jasher as scripture? Do you also accept the early Christian book of Barnabas, which describes rabbits as growing a new anus every year?

Still waiting on a direct reply to:

So have you read the book of Mormon?

How about the Gospel of Peter? However, for those Christians who do see them as inspired, that's fine for them. I accept them as Christians either way.

You might like to know that in the Word of God, lightning speaks to the Creator [Job], and the Altar before the throne in heaven speaks [Rev], and that beasts exist before the throne in heaven and come down to earth at times, who have four heads: Adam, lion, eagle, and bull, with six wings, Adam hands and calf's feet. There are many more things in the Word of God you could read about and see, if you read with eyes to see and ears to hear.

And the book of the Song of Songs describes a woman with a face made of a pomegranate and with livestock attached to her chest. Have you considered that many of these are symbols, not to be taken literally?

Another example - Exodus states that God flew the Jews out of egypt on eagles. Do you really think that's what happened? Might that be a symbol?

Papias

yeshuasavedme · Mar 3, 2011

Papias said:
Yesua wrote:

I did hear you, and have read the scripture you posted, and have pointed out that I find no basis in that scripture for your interpretation. And it's not just me - millions of other Christians don't see any basis for your idea of a pure male "Adam Spirit" superceding the work that God accomplishes through natural means using the genes from both the female egg and the male sperm.

How would you know what millions [even billions and billions who have been born on earth as Adam seed, from the beginning] of "other" Christians know about the Word or not, and about what Adam is, and what Adam is not, and what it means to be "spirit, soul, and body"?

In the Word of God, it is the spirit/nature of the kind that multiplies the kind, after its own likeness; clothing it with the flesh of its own kind/nature, by the command of the Creator, from the beginning.

God is the God of the spirits of all flesh, and those created single, spirits of the flesh are the created "kinds/natures" which must obey and multiply the [numbers of persons/souls] kind, by the seed in itself. -Whether animal or plant, it is the spirit of the kind which obeys the Creator and multiplies the kind by the seed created within the kind in the beginning, and builds the house of the kind for each seed come into its being, to be housed/tabernacled in.

A seed come into its own single one kind/spirit/being/life/nature is an individual, separate soul/person, having the remnant/residue of the Adam spirit inherent within itself to carry on the command of the Creator to be fruitful and multiply by the seed within itself, after its own kind/spirit/being/life.

Adam is made one spirit [Malachi 2:15], and made male and female [Genesis 5:2], for the purpose of multiplying the seed created in the loins of the male Adam, implanting itself in the female Adam egg.
Malachi 2:15 states that He made them [the male and the female Adam persons] one, having a residue/remnant of the [Adam] spirit, for the purpose of multiplying the persons in Adam [the (former) son of God, as godly seed =sons of God.
God wanted human being sons, "built up" from the multiplied seed of the Adam, so as to indwell that "building" as a temple not made with hands.
Each soul who ever was come into its being/nature/kind, in Adam, and whoever is now living, in Adam, and whoever shall come into its own being/nature ...etc, in Adam, is already written in the Book of Life to come into its being in its own "season" of time, and that Adam spirit inherent in the seed of the Adam obeys the command of the Creator as written in that Book, and is the "force/life" who directs the implanting of the seed in the egg, and builds the tabernacle house/flesh for that soul, in the pre-appointed season of its coming into its being, obeying the God of "the spirits of all flesh"

Adam is dead in spirit and not a son of God since the fall, but Adam must obey and the seed must come forth as written in the Book of Life, in their season. It is the "residue/remnant" of the Adam spirit who answers to God's Word written [The Book of Life in heaven] and brings forth the generation to "harah" -conception into life/being.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with Adam for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years [double in meaning: 120 years until the flood until that statement, and 120 Jubilee years for Adam spirit to multiply before he is "cut off" from doing so in the 8th day of creation, which is the new beginning/regeneration of all things. That oracle is the sign of circumcision given to Abraham for his male heirs through Isaac to wear in their flesh until it is fulfilled in the regeneration of all things in the 8th day of creation -no charge for that free information].

Num 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
Num 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hbr 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Fatherof spirits, and live?

Enoch 37:
2And this is the beginning of the words of wisdom which I lifted up my voice to speak and say to those which dwell on earth: Hear, ye men of old time, and see, ye that come after, the words of the Holy One which I will speak before the Lord of Spirits. 3It were better to declare them only to the men of old time, but even from those that come after we will not withhold the beginning of wisdom. 4Till the present day such wisdom has never been given by the Lord of Spirits as I have received according to my insight, according to the good pleasure of the Lord of Spirits by whom the lot of eternal life has been given to me.
Enoch 38:
38 The first Parable.
When the congregation of the righteous shall appear,
And sinners shall be judged for their sins,
And shall be driven from the face of the earth:
2And when the Righteous One shall appear before the eyes of the righteous,
Whose elect works hang upon the Lord of Spirits,
And light shall appear to the righteous and the elect who dwell on the earth,
Where then will be the dwelling of the sinners,
And where the resting-place of those who have denied the Lord of Spirits?
It had been good for them if they had not been born.
3When the secrets of the righteous shall be revealed and the sinners judged,
And the godless driven from the presence of the righteous and elect,
4From that time those that possess the earth shall no longer be powerful and exalted:
And they shall not be able to behold the face of the holy,
For the Lord of Spirits has caused His light to appear
On the face of the holy, righteous, and elect.
5Then shall the kings and the mighty perish
And be given into the hands of the righteous and holy.
6And thenceforward none shall seek for themselves mercy from the Lord of Spirits
For their life is at an end.

yeshuasavedme · Mar 3, 2011

Papias said:
You also have posted that the earth is not a planet, and that it doesn't rotate on it's axis, and That the earth doesn't orbit the sun.

You might not be familiar with the history, but the idea that the Earth is stationary and orbited by the sun and stars was debunked over 300 years ago. Clinging to a literal view of that idea, even if literally described in Genesis, only holds back your faith and makes Christianity a laughingstock.

You mean like they mocked Jesus and like they mock His Word?

Robert Sungenis, Roman Catholic scientist and apologist, agrees with the Word of God on this matter, so maybe you had better take it up with him...as I stand with the Word and haven't writtn either the Scriptures, or such an excellent book as Sungenis and Bennet have.

Galileo Was Wrong

Galileo Was Wrong: The Church Was Right Vols. 1 & 2 Galileo Was Wrong: The Church Was Right is one of the most unique and penetrating books you will ever read. Now complete in Volumes I and II, authors Robert Sungenis and Robert Bennett take you on a tour of science and history the likes of which you would have never believed possible unless it were told to you in detailed and graphic form. Has modern science led us down the primrose path and convinced us of something that they cannot prove and that is in actuality false? Were the Fathers, the Medievals, our popes and cardinals of the 16th century correct in believing that the Earth, based on a face value reading of Scripture, was standing still in the center of the universe? Come with an open mind and allow these two authors to show you facts and figures that have been hidden from the public for a very long time....
http://www.catholicintl.com/products/books.htm

Books

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Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

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