The flesh is Good what up with that?

enoch son · Apr 4, 2004

It was made good Genesis. Adam said women you are bone of my bone (body) flesh of my flesh 2-23.
That the question if the bone is the body and the new test. calls the body a tent and temple and body then where does the flesh hid?
"And the word became flesh and dwelt among us" and that flesh was good. So can flesh be good?
And where does it ABIDE?

Trish1947 · Apr 4, 2004

I'm not sure what you mean by the question enoch son, but wasn't it called "good" before the fall? Everything about Adam was good, then. But after the fall, how can flesh be good? It can't enter the kingdom of God. Jesus said, flesh and blood CANNOT enter the kingdom of God. "Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you", referring to Christs question of who do men say that I am. Isn't the flesh dead due to trespasses?

Paul wrote,
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

Again, Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (He knew he was walking around in a dead body) He desired to be clothed with his new body. Jesus condemed sin in the flesh, by nailing it to the cross. That we might be made alive in the Spirit.

Paul is saying that in my flesh dwells nothing good, he calls it a body of death. It's dead. If it can be made good, there would be no need for us to have to be changed in the twinkleing of an eye. Flesh is corruptable, we must put on incorruption, a new body.

enoch son · Apr 4, 2004

Very good Trish; But the body is dust, or bone depending on sex. But where does the flesh live? Are will body, soul, spirit and flesh?

Trish1947 · Apr 4, 2004

Do you mean what will we be, or what we are now? Your going to have to help me here. My understanding is we're body (which is hid in Christ) soul, Spirit. This earthly flesh is dead. We're like Adam was in the garden before the fall. My understanding is body is not flesh. Flesh is what we got as a covering when Adam fell.

Svt4Him · Apr 4, 2004

My flesh kind of keeps my guts from spilling out.

enoch son · Apr 5, 2004

What God has been dealing with me about this "flesh" is that it is like a "cancer" in our body. It can move into one soul etc. I know what happean to it on the cross and that it is dead. But Holy Spirit is pulling me into a deeper understanding of the flesh and it's movement.

joevberry3 · Apr 5, 2004

Yes Enoch the "Flesh" or "SIN" is cancer. It will destroy us if we allow it too...If we dont die to the flesh constantly it will destroy us, our families and our relationship with God...

Joe

Theophilus7 · Apr 6, 2004

joevberry3 said:
Yes Enoch the "Flesh" or "SIN" is cancer. It will destroy us if we allow it too...If we dont die to the flesh constantly it will destroy us, our families and our relationship with God...

I agree. When Paul speaks of the sinful flesh, he does not mean the body (or skin), but a spiritual disease. It is something we receive through natural generation (like the body), which is why Paul uses the Greek word 'sarkos' (surely a word with one of the broadest semantic fields in the New Testament!). The NIV translates it "sinful nature" when appropriate.

My understanding is that, in the new birth, a new 'principle' is unleashed within man. He has moved from the state of 'non posse non pecare' (lit. not able not to sin) to the state of 'posse non pecare' (lit. able not to sin). The 'flesh' (or 'sinful nature') remains, but he can triumph over it. "The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus had made me free from the law of sin and death". The challenge now is to let this new life reach further and further outward, like the ripples on a pond, till every area of our lives is now under the sway of the new principle, instead of the old and selfish 'sin principle' which had previously enslaved us.

enoch son · Apr 6, 2004

"Flesh and blood can't inherit the kingdom of God". So that means that Phil.3-15 is a lie?

RevKidd · Apr 6, 2004

Going back to the creation account, could it have been very possible that Adam and Eve were Spirit creatures before the fall. God in His purest form is spirit. Man was made in God's image. When Adam and Eve fell, could the realization of their nakedness been that they were then clothed in the corruptable flesh as we are now?

O, and to answer the question, flesh is bad....

vanshan · Apr 6, 2004

Our flesh is redeemed through Christ in baptism! Through Him we our flesh is restored to the goodness it had before the fall; HOWEVER, we are still subject to the messed up temptations and desires of this fallen world. The flesh is good, but can be a source of sin unless we buffet our bodies as Saint Paul clearly instructs us to do. How do we buffet (i.e. restrain, or train) our bodies from sin? Praying, fasting, etc.

Theophilus7 · Apr 6, 2004

RevKidd said:
Going back to the creation account, could it have been very possible that Adam and Eve were Spirit creatures before the fall. God in His purest form is spirit. Man was made in God's image. When Adam and Eve fell, could the realization of their nakedness been that they were then clothed in the corruptable flesh as we are now?

I don't think so, RevKidd. The very name, "Adam", means "dust", or "earthy". Man is a material being, albeit with a rational spirit, and God thinks this is a "very good" thing.

O, and to answer the question, flesh is bad....

If by "flesh" you mean the physical body, I must disagree. There is nothing wrong with having a material, flesh and blood body. However, certainly the "flesh" Paul speaks about - the thing that is "lusting against the desires of the Spirit", is bad. However, Paul does not mean the body here.

RevKidd · Apr 6, 2004

Theophilus7 said:
I don't think so, RevKidd. The very name, "Adam", means "dust", or "earthy". Man is a material being, albeit with a rational spirit, and God thinks this is a "very good" thing.

If by "flesh" you mean the physical body, I must disagree. There is nothing wrong with having a material, flesh and blood body. However, certainly the "flesh" Paul speaks about - the thing that is "lusting against the desires of the Spirit", is bad. However, Paul does not mean the body here.

Theo, remember it was just a thought. I just have never been satisfied with the answers that I get when I ask why Adam and Eve did not realize they were naked before they sinned.

And I do agree with you on the flesh part.

vanshan · Apr 6, 2004

I know most of us on this board are not history buffs, but historically the only group who taught that the material world, including our flesh bodies, is bad is a group called the gnostics. This belief was actually always rejected by Christians. The fallen world is corrupted, but when Christ was crucified he undid the curse of sin and death. Death is still in the world but through Christ we are redeemed.

Trish1947 · Apr 6, 2004

If flesh is good, or can be made good through subduing it, bringing it under subjection, walking in the Spirit, then why does it still have to be changed? Yes, we can control our fleshly desires now that we have the Holy Spirit, but, it does not make it good. Until our bodies die, or death is swollowed up in victory, it is still in a corruptable state. It has to be changed to incorruptable still. We keep it under control that it doesn't get the upper hand that can cause us to not walk in newness of life. We don't want to go back to walking after the flesh. You tell me, if you give your flesh a chance to reign, that it wont wont take advantage. It most certainly will.

vanshan · Apr 6, 2004

Our hearts that were once darkened from the inside now have been enlightened by Christ. The fallen world still affects us from the outside, but in Christ we can begin to overcome sin and sanctify our bodies here on earth.

Theophilus7 · Apr 6, 2004

Both good posts, vanshan. Greek philosophy is still a problem for Christians today, as it was for the early Church.

Trish1947 · Apr 6, 2004

But there is still a change that has to take place. Corruptable has to put on incorruption. Unless there are those that will not have to be changed because they have become totally Holy? I don't find that in scripture, You still have corruptable flesh, that cant enter the Kingdom unless its changed. Like Paul said those that say they have no sin, are only deceiving themselves." If this earthly tent is taken down, we have a building of God, not made with hands" Whats that old saying?, You cant take it with you. Ashes to ashes, until it's raised incorruptable. When you are walking in the Spirit, you have no conciousness of sin, your flesh is not in control, but it is still in a corruptable state. The new you, your born again spirit does not sin because Gods seed is in us.

The flesh is Good what up with that?

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