But we know many requirements that are absolutely necessary and that is what has been shown to be a very rare occurrence.
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But we know many requirements that are absolutely necessary and that is what has been shown to be a very rare occurrence.I think models that include other universes can account for the fine tuning in our own yes. But what I am getting st with the life as we know it objecton is a bit different. When you say our universe exibits fine tuning what do you mean, fine tuned for what? I presume you mean for intelligent life. The issue is that we don't know what conditions are required for life generally. We do know what life as we know it requires but not life generally. It is possible that any universe that exists would also allow for life, just that the life would be different from the life as we know it.
We know many absolute necessary requirements for life as we know it. We don't know anything about what other forms life could take and what requirements might or might not be.But we know many requirements that are absolutely necessary and that is what has been shown to be a very rare occurrence.
We know that life of any kind to reproduce takes order. That is the basic requirement for anything that would be called life.We know many absolute necessary requirements for life as we know it. We don't know anything about what other forms life could take and what requirements might or might not be.
That is a basic requirement for life as we know it. How could we possibly determine that it is a requirement for any and all kinds of life?We know that life of any kind to reproduce takes order. That is the basic requirement for anything that would be called life.
Well lets focus on this one aspect then because it is a good question.That is a basic requirement for life as we know it. How could we possibly determine that it is a requirement for any and all kinds of life?
Chaos and fine tuned are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum.That is simply false.
No I don't agree. We simply don't know. One possibly helpful way of thinking about this from within your worldview is to ask yourself how it applies to God. Is God alive? Does he reproduce? Is he made of macromolecules? EtcWell lets focus on this one aspect then because it is a good question.
Do you agree that if life unlike ours exists that it probably would be composed of macromolecules?
after 10 or 20 orders of magnitude? Pretty much anything 20 orders of magnitude larger is going to kill us. Like, anything. A grain of sand, scaled up 20 orders of magnitude, means you just got crushed by a thousand pyramids of giza.We should start here maybe then:
We touched on this earlier and you seemed to agree that we by tweaking the constants CAN actually determine if life of any kind could exist. For instance I gave you the nuclear force example. Here are a few more from Luke Barnes which if you will remember is the physicist I provided for your review.
“There are changes we can make to the laws of nature that result in a universe so simple, so barren, that by any definition of life, this isn’t it. The cosmological constant is a good example: we have a 120 orders of magnitude to play with, but after even 10 or 20, the universe contains nothing but an expanding hydrogen soup. Such a universe is very easy to predict – the universe never leaves the “linear regime”. We can solve the equations of cosmological structure formation. Compared to calculating the behaviour of our universe, this one is a doddle.
“If the strong force were weaker, the periodic table would consist of only hydrogen. We do not need a rigorous definition of life to reasonably conclude that a universe with one chemical reaction (2H → H2) would not be able to create and sustain the complexity necessary for life.”)
Life requires order and a multitude of hypothetical arrangements do not allow for life of any kind due to a complete lack of order. That is why most scientists agree that other life forms would be exceedingly rare if any existed at all.
Edited to add: Not only is it fine tuned for intelligent life but also fine tuned to exist at all.
Sorry?
We know many absolute necessary requirements for life as we know it. We don't know anything about what other forms life could take and what requirements might or might not be.
No I don't agree. We simply don't know. One possibly helpful way of thinking about this from within your worldview is to ask yourself how it applies to God. Is God alive? Does he reproduce? Is he made of macromolecules? Etc
Sure. I only raise it in response to the fine tuning argument. I am happy to sray with the evidence as we know it. In 1 of 1 universes intelligent life is possible. Probability of 1.But speculation about what other forms of life might or might not require is irrelevant, since this is all we know. Again, we can close our eyes and imagine a universe with infinite possibilities, but until we open our eyes we will never see the light. To dream about other possibilities is fine - until we start confusing those dreams with reality as we know it to be.
Since no other life has ever been discovered or even shown to be possible, we can say anything we like about them - and never have to worry about being shown to be wrong. It's simply an un-falsifiable theory and not worth the time to consider it, as un-falsifiable theories are not scientific theories.
Great question. I would say life as we know it has the usual host of attributes. Made of matter, reproduces, changes over time etc. But I don't see why life should be limited to this, except for in a semantic sense. What do you think life is?What makes life life? The rocks are made of the same exact protons, neutrons and electrons that make up you. Are you saying the protons, electrons and neutrons that make up the molecules of your body are different than that what makes up rock? Or is it something else that makes the same subatomic particles behave differently?
How would you explain then the 120 order of magnitude of the cosmological constant?after 10 or 20 orders of magnitude? Pretty much anything 20 orders of magnitude larger is going to kill us. Like, anything. A grain of sand, scaled up 20 orders of magnitude, means you just got crushed by a thousand pyramids of giza.
I don't follow this, you are not unaware of what God is as far as Christian theology, so how does this make sense to you?No I don't agree. We simply don't know. One possibly helpful way of thinking about this from within your worldview is to ask yourself how it applies to God. Is God alive? Does he reproduce? Is he made of macromolecules? Etc
Yet, here we sit on this tiny blue dot enjoying our special place, the only place where we could even observe stars dying, novas, supernovas, black holes, quasars and those pesky comets and asteroids whizzing around us.Stars dying,novas,supernovas,black holes,quasars...comets and asteroids smashing into other objects...is that orderly?
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