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This type of remark is not only intellectually lazy, it is ignoring very specific information in regard to science. What surprises me is that someone doesn't find it surprising considering the delicate balance of so many elements required for us to be here.What do you think is surprising about finding yourself in a universe in which you can actually exist?
Do a google search on the word: "evolution" and click on images and EVERYTHING will be someones artwork.
The point is that evolutionary theory is a myth that is based on people doing drawing. There is a lack of evidence to back up their drawing.
This type of remark is not only intellectually lazy, it is ignoring very specific information in regard to science.
What surprises me is that someone doesn't find it surprising considering the delicate balance of so many elements required for us to be here.
No that is NOT true. I used the illustration of horse evolution as an example. I studied drafting and design in college & I know the difference between drafting a design and art. I know what you can build in the real world and what you can NOT build. The many many drawings for horse evolution does not represent horse evolution at all. Here is an article that will explain this to you. For those that really want to know the truth. What we find is that the study of DNA has shown us that a lot of what we thought we knew about evolution was simply not true. https://smoodock45.wordpress.com/2013/08/20/the-evolution-of-the-horse/You forgot to mention that every single of those artworks, including the tree you posted, are actually artist illustration of actual real data.
This type of remark is not only intellectually lazy, it is ignoring very specific information in regard to science.
What surprises me is that someone doesn't find it surprising considering the delicate balance of so many elements required for us to be here.
No that is NOT true. I used the illustration of horse evolution as an example. I studied drafting and design in college & I know the difference between drafting a design and art. I know what you can build in the real world and what you can NOT build. The many many drawings for horse evolution does not represent horse evolution at all. Here is an article that will explain this to you. For those that really want to know the truth. What we find is that the study of DNA has shown us that a lot of what we thought we knew about evolution was simply not true.
Some are better then others. Perhaps doctors should be required to tell people how well they did in school. Half of the doctors graduated in the lower half of their class. Still this is the whole point behind the Bible. The Bible is not based on man and man's authority. The Bible is based on God and God's authority. So the same God that created us and the entire universe is the God of the Bible.
Please explain the possible flexibility.That is just not true.
The stuff about physical constants etc, the theories behind them - specifically their origins and possible "flexibility", aren't solid established science at all.
We don't? It seems that physicists claim to know quite a lot.We know next to nothing about the origins and the very nature of the universe.
This is begging the question and a total assertion.Not to mention that the "fine tuning" god-argument is inevitably going to end up in a god-of-the-gaps.
What assumptions have I made?We aren't talking about the facts themselves, but about hypotheses to explain those facts. You're going full speed ahead towards "god-dun-it", while making (unjustified) assumption after assumption along the way.
So you deny that fine tuning is real?Yes, they do, because they have no way to test their models and must thus assume that their math and models account for all the facts.
Are you claiming we can't know what would happen if we didn't have the gravitational levels we have? Surely not? We even have learned why a feather and a hammer fall at the same rate, do you deny that as well?You can't go into a lab and turn gravity off.
Its call confirmation bias.I don't see how.
The measurements are very precise and they can be tweaked by computer models. Do you think that this is known by going to a lab and discovering it:This doesn't make much sense to me.
I can only repeat what I said: you can't go into a lab and fiddle with the physical constants. You can take the current (barely testable) models and put other values into the parameters, and see what happens, sure.
You do realize that it would take trillions and trillions of them right?Ow dear...
That's not an assertion. That's a fact. If you have an infinite amount of universes, then universes such as this one are inevitable. That's kind of the thing with the infinite.
So you don't buy into the multiverse then?And I wasn't asserting that an infinite amount of universes actually do exist, btw.
I'm saying that it's just one of the many possibilities your imagination can produce.
I guess my point went over yours? We can't ever KNOW if there are other universes.Not at this time at least.
But that was kind of my point...
Too bad it went straight over your head.
Which can NEVER be KNOWN either. Right now, with the evidence as it stands, a special explanation is necessary for our universe. The evidence supports a Fine Tuner.If an infinite amount of universes exist, there need not be any special explanation necessary for our own universe, as in an infinite sea of universes, a universe like ours is bound to exist.
Are they now? See my example above. How do you go in a lab and create a test that shows the evolution of the whale? What about the Universal Common Ancestor? What evidence do you have for it?Evolution models are testable.
The fact that the universe is as it is permits life not that life is rare in of itself. It is the universe that makes life possible, without the fine tuned parameters the universe itself would not exist.The evidence you gave in those links is about life in our universe, specifically most of the information was either about life in earth or the lack of it anywhere else in our universe. In your adaptation of my analogy each marble is a universe. Therfore information about life in our universe is information about one marble. I added the bit about the dust most inside the marble as a way of representing the earth and it's life.
Maybe my attempt to explain via analogy was poor but the basic objection is valid. Your premise states that a universe that is life permitting is intrinsically unlikely. You have only given evidence that life, even in a life permitting universe, is rare. You have not given any evidence to support the notion that a life permitting universe is rare and that was the premise you were trying to establish.
Many of the physicists that are looking to the multiverse understand that if they can't come up with a reasonable explanation for the fine tuning God is it. Paul Davies says that one of the motivations behind the multiverse hypothesis was to make a way to finally get rid of God. It stands to reason that introducing such a possibility even if it as outside the realm of science to do away with God would be more to the liking of those who don't believe such a Fine Tuner exists. That being said, the reason I post those is to scientifically support my argument, which it does.Weird, the only scientific reference you posted spent a lot of words talking about how promising a multiverse theory was but none at all on creationism. Why post that reference if you think it is incorrect?
The point is that there is no actual testable data that shows in a lab what actual ancestors gave rise to the whale.The discovery of DNA, obviously, has given us new information and understanding of our evolutionary past, which in quite some cases triggered a review of certain models and inter-species relations etc.
Having said that, none of this actually matters. Artist renderings only serve as illustration or fancy pictures in magazines.
The science itself concerns itself with the actual testable data.
Actually it is due to this being a very valid and supported argument for God, added to the fact that the multiverse was created just for the purpose to eliminate the explanation of God; I think that it is spot on.More or less lazy than retreating into creationism?
This is just head in the sand reasoning.No more surprising than the fact that wherever I go, there I am.
The point is that there is no actual testable data that shows in a lab what actual ancestors gave rise to the whale.
It tells you who is willing to work hard and who is a sluggard. My son graduated high school with a 3.969 grade point average. Not because he is smarter but because he is willing to work harder.Where one finishes in their class, doesnt tell the whole story.
The result was they had to completely rewrite the theory of evolution to match the new information. I am on my third doctor now. Two doctors have retired. When I tell my new doctor what my old doctor advised me often I am told they do not do that anymore. They use to recommend that but they do not recommend that anymore. Yet they always have lots of confidence they are giving you good advice but time does not always support that.The discovery of DNA, obviously, has given us new information and understanding of our evolutionary past
Can you please just answer the question....
What do you find surprising about it?
Not more surprising then the many events that had to take place for you to be born.
A bloodline chain of 3.6-ish billion years worth of generation after generation.
Or any other chain of events that lead to the eventual existance of any object in the universe.
I agree with you that the universe as it currently exists, permits life (obviously).The fact that the universe is as it is permits life not that life is rare in of itself. It is the universe that makes life possible, without the fine tuned parameters the universe itself would not exist.
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