• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

  • The rule regarding AI content has been updated. The rule now rules as follows:

    Be sure to credit AI when copying and pasting AI sources. Link to the site of the AI search, just like linking to an article.

The Fall

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sort by date Sort by votes

seebs

God Made Me A Skeptic
Apr 9, 2002
31,917
1,530
20
Saint Paul, MN
Visit site
✟70,235.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I am not sure God cursed us. I think God may have been describing the effects of *our* choice.

Or, alternatively, the entire passage could be mythology, a "how the leopard got his spots" story intended to capture the nature of the world.
 
Upvote 0
C

Chris†opher Paul

Based on a True Story
May 8, 2002
10,531
4
51
Centreville, VA
✟17,404.00

Ok, but the Cathechism says that we cant tamper with Original Sin/Fall without undermining the purpose of Christ.
 
Upvote 0

seebs

God Made Me A Skeptic
Apr 9, 2002
31,917
1,530
20
Saint Paul, MN
Visit site
✟70,235.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Fair enough. I have never been clear on the fall, myself; never made any sense to me, for mostly the reasons you cited in your original post.

I am, as always, content to observe that I know *I'm* sinful, and need salvation, and leave the question of how that came to be to people more qualified than myself.
 
Upvote 0

Defender of the Faith 777

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2002
1,121
4
Visit site
✟2,076.00
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Well, from Ref's viewpoint, if there were no sin, there could be no salvation, and the love of God could not be known.

The words "grace," "love," and "joy" would merely be theoretical hypotheses.

Now they are reality.

Personally though, I believe that God didn't force man to sin, but man voluntarily took that step towards evil. As a result, our entire nature was plummetted into corruption. TTYL Jesus loves you!
 
Upvote 0

Gabriel

I Once Was Lost, But Now Am Found
Oct 10, 2002
2,923
107
56
FL
Visit site
✟34,059.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Originally posted by s0uljah
Why is the flesh weak?
Click to expand...

Because, although we are created in His image, we are not God, thus we are not perfect. Our flesh is subject to temptation simply because we are not God. I would submit that the flesh was weak from the start. If not, Adam and Eve would not have fallen into temptation in the first place.

We were created to glorify God. That is our purpose. If none sinned and none fell, what would be the glory in those that are redeemed?
 
Upvote 0
C

Chris†opher Paul

Based on a True Story
May 8, 2002
10,531
4
51
Centreville, VA
✟17,404.00

But angels don't have flesh, and some of them fell.

 
Upvote 0

Gabriel

I Once Was Lost, But Now Am Found
Oct 10, 2002
2,923
107
56
FL
Visit site
✟34,059.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Originally posted by s0uljah
But angels don't have flesh, and some of them fell.
Click to expand...

I would assume that flesh is more of a term for those that are not God than a literal term for meat.

OT. I owe you an apology. What we were doing was not edifying to each other or others, and worse it did not glorify God. As I started it, I will apologize and accept the blame. I am doing it publicly because I sinned publicly and so should repent accordingly.

We are brothers, s0uljah. Whether we agree or not on issues has no bearing on the fact that we are children of God and should act accordingly.
 
Upvote 0
C

Chris†opher Paul

Based on a True Story
May 8, 2002
10,531
4
51
Centreville, VA
✟17,404.00

No problem, and I am sorry for allowing the discussion to continue that way.

Anyway, doesnt FLESH mean that our biologies effect our behavior? That is certainly what we observe, isnt it?
 
Upvote 0

Gabriel

I Once Was Lost, But Now Am Found
Oct 10, 2002
2,923
107
56
FL
Visit site
✟34,059.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Originally posted by s0uljah
No problem, and I am sorry for allowing the discussion to continue that way.

Anyway, doesnt FLESH mean that our biologies effect our behavior? That is certainly what we observe, isnt it?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is very true. The fallen angels' sin was not a sin of biology, though. Their sin was pride and perhaps greed. Maybe even idol worship as they lifted satan up above God and followed him. When the bible speaks of judgement, it also speaks of the angels being judged.

I am not trying to start a debate with what I'm about to say.
You wrote: doesnt FLESH mean that our biologies effect our behavior?
Yes, it does. That influence is one of the reasons why I say we don't have free will. Free will is will free of influence, but our flesh affects our will. I know you don't agree and I'm not trying to start a rabbit trail.
 
Upvote 0

Gabriel

I Once Was Lost, But Now Am Found
Oct 10, 2002
2,923
107
56
FL
Visit site
✟34,059.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Originally posted by s0uljah
I agree.

So our spirits are willing, but our physical flesh is weak.

Why is it weak? God didn't make us like that, did He?
Click to expand...

I don't know why.

He must have made us that way or Adam and Eve would have been able to resist satan.

Our chief end is to glorify God through worship and praise and need. if He didn't make us weak, we wouldn't need Him or do these things with a whole heart. This is my assumption only.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

The Devil Preys Constantly
Replies
3
Views
230
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
RileyG
7 Steps to Help Us Control Our Minds
Replies
0
Views
125
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
How Does One Die to Sin?
Replies
0
Views
117
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
POPE LEO XIV EXPLAINS WHY CATHOLICS FAST DURING LENT
Replies
0
Views
146
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
God loves us unconditionally or does he?
Replies
6
Views
397
Christian Philosophy & Ethics
Bro.T
Menu
Log in
Register