The evidence for evolution., Since it comes up... over and over...

westernjoe said:

anyone else want to claim we descended from chimps???

Let's hear it! I need to see just how many uninformed evolutionists this site has.

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I don't believe the author of the OP meant to imply that Chimps are our ancestors. The chimp skull is only offered as a non-human ape representative. That said, TheDreadedAtheist should have made that point clear.

KerrMetric said:

Can you please link me to anyone (in science) who says we did?

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I'm not debating anyone in science...I'm debating the dreaded atheist -- or whatever his name is -- who proclaimed this little clueless jewel.

TheDreadedAtheist said:

Click to expand...

Here's why there's no point to this conversation.

E (evolutionist): I believe B evolved into N
C (creationist): prove it, show me a transitional fossil
E:i have found fossil J, is a strata layer between B and N
C: So? that's not transition, it's just a deformed version of B
E:but it has characteristics of B and N
C:sorry, you'll have to do better
E: well, i also found C and E, both found in sequential order in the strata and both displaying traits to indicate they are transitional fossils
C: not good enough, there should be lots of transitional fossil, you are only showing me 3
E:I have F, G, K, and L, again, all found in sequential order
C: Do you see what you've done? now you need to prove that B evolved into C, C into E, E -> F, F -> G, G -> J, J -> K, K ->L, L -> N. You've just made 8 holes in your theory.
E: But i've shown you how they are transitional based on their feature, and how deep they were found compared to each other!
C: no you didn't
E: ...
E: why are no fossils like N found any lower? wouldn't the flood have mixed up all the creatures of the earth?
C: That's not the point here, the point is that you haven't provided sufficient information about the evolution of man because you lack the knowledge to truly understand science. I'll refer you now to a good creationist article i read to explain to you how things really work.
E: um...

Edit - I understand the picture may not be an intended order of evolution, i'm just making a point about discussing transitional fossils with creationists

Oops! looks like my statement about no fossils leading to homo erectus is correct.


http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

please note the question marks after australopithecus! (apes)

westernjoe said:

anyone else want to claim we descended from chimps???

Let's hear it! I need to see just how many uninformed evolutionists this site has.

Click to expand...

Not going to 'splain the why scientists use common descent as the basis for comparative genomics? Oh well... I guess those poor, misguided scientists will continue their medical and agricultural research with nobody as smart as you to guide them from their misbegotten path... You could've made a difference, but chose not to. I guess you'll just have to live with that...

Oops! looks like my statement about no fossils leading to homo erectus is correct.


http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanor...ha/a_tree.html

please note the question marks after australopithecus! (apes)

westernjoe said:

Oops! looks like my statement about no fossils leading to homo erectus is correct.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

please note the question marks after australopithecus!

Click to expand...

see, i said this was a pointless conversation

philadiddle said:

E:I have F, G, K, and L, again, all found in sequential order
C: Do you see what you've done? now you need to prove that B evolved into C, C into E, E -> F, F -> G, G -> J, J -> K, K ->L, L -> N. You've just made 8 holes in your theory.
E: But i've shown you how they are transitional based on their feature, and how deep they were found compared to each other!
C: no you didn't

Click to expand...

philadiddle said:

see, i said this was a pointless conversation

Click to expand...

I did not make this map up, nor did I insert the question marks.

Question?..

Then why are chimps and apes still around.. Wouldn't the whole entire population evolve or die off?

Also.. Have you studied Darwin.. What I have heard is that he himself thought his theory Unbelievable.

Another thing , Were do animals of today get there "instincts" from..No science can figure out why birds fly south for the winter or why whales migrate .. (not including the 100's of other species that migrate for winter season or hibernate for that matter)

My point is stated in the bible...
(I forgot the exact verse so could someone who knows sorta what I am talking about aide me thank you)

IT sorta kinda goes like this..

God Shows the birds in the air were to migrate to and he provides them food and shelter why do you think he wouldn't love you. (Something like that.. I cant recall the exact verse..)

anyways.. It is something like that..

That verse tells me that God installs birds and bees and every creature on this Earth with Knowledge of how to get places..

So why do we question his Absolute Authority? ..

That is my last question.. I wish I had that verse ..

westernjoe said:

I did not make this map up, nor did I insert the question marks.

Click to expand...

You miss the point. The rest of the map is based on evidence. There are no homo sapien fossils found below a certain point in the strata, they are found according to the predictions of the ToE, they are not found deep in the earth, as they would be with a world wide flood. Many transitionals have been found, but because of the rare conditions needed to make fossils, we can't expect to get every single transition. If you want to discredit the fossil record, don't point out holes, because holes will be expected. You need to point out obvious contradictions, like a homo sapien below australopithecus, or something of that sort. If that doesn't make sense to you, then there is no hope in having a conversation about science with you.

Well...it looks like I ran dreadedatheist off. Too bad I had to invalidate all his silly posts -- and his credibility as an authority on human evolution -- with one short and sweet post.

Anyone else?

westernjoe said:

Well...it looks like I ran dreadedatheist off. Too bad I had to invalidate all his silly posts -- and his credibility as an authority on human evolution -- with one short and sweet post.

Anyone else?

Click to expand...

Why do you argue..

It doesn't resolve anything..

I need to study the bible more.. It seems I can't remember these key versus like I use to..
But It does say that arguing resolves in nothing.. and its pointless to waste your time on it.

Helpme..iamconfused said:

Question?..

Then why are chimps and apes still around.. Wouldn't the whole entire population evolve or die off?

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we have a common ancestor with chimps

Helpme..iamconfused said:

Also.. Have you studied Darwin.. What I have heard is that he himself thought his theory Unbelievable.

Click to expand...

you heard wrong

Helpme..iamconfused said:

That verse tells me that God installs birds and bees and every creature on this Earth with Knowledge of how to get places..

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these are called natural instincts. I believe the verse is right, and believe God did it through explainable natural processes

Helpme..iamconfused said:

So why do we question his Absolute Authority? ..

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we don't, you may want to consider that the bible, in the creation account, expresses a worldview, and not a scientific cosmology. If the intention of Genesis is to express theological truths using a context that the culture at that time would understand, in no way does it contradict the theory of evolution.

You miss the point.

No I don't.



The rest of the map is based on evidence. There are no homo sapien fossils found below a certain point in the strata,

Well that's just plain false. There are bones dug up that are indestinguishable from modern human bones that are dated at or earlier than any other primate.


they are found according to the predictions of the ToE,

no they are not. Toe just classifies them according to what their chart says. Many hominid bones are found laying right on top of the ground.

they are not found deep in the earth, as they would be with a world wide flood. Many transitionals have been found, but because of the rare conditions needed to make fossils, we can't expect to get every single transition. If you want to discredit the fossil record, don't point out holes, because holes will be expected. You need to point out obvious contradictions, like a homo sapien below australopithecus, or something of that sort. If that doesn't make sense to you, then there is no hope in having a conversation about science with you.

Not only do you not have transitionals from apes to humans but you don't even have transitionals from one ape to another. Not only THAT but there is not even a shred of fossil evidence for the great apes -- and that includes chimps. Nothing.

Ernst Mayr:

Unfortunately, no hominid fossils -- nor such of a fossil chimpanzee -- are as yet known for the period between 6 and 13 mya. Thus there is no documentation of the branching event between the hominid and the chimpanzee lineages. To make matters worse, most hominid fossils are extremely incomplete. They may consist of part of a mandible, or the upper part of the skull without face and teeth, or only part of the extremities. What Evolution Is. Pg. 239

Helpme..iamconfused;30518626]Question?..

Then why are chimps and apes still around.. Wouldn't the whole entire population evolve or die off?
Actually, Chimps and Humans are the offspring of a common ancestor that did die off that was neither Chimp nor Human.
We are both apes, Chimps and Humans that is.
Also.. Have you studied Darwin.. What I have heard is that he himself thought his theory Unbelievable.
I actually haven't yet read Origin of the Species, but it is on my bed and the next book in line. As to your comment, I believe it is part of what is called a quote mine. IIRC the line was along the lines that it may seem unbelieveable until you look at it a little further, Darwin did not think it unbelieveable, but someone else will find the actual quote.

Another thing , Were do animals of today get there "instincts" from..No science can figure out why birds fly south for the winter or why whales migrate .. (not including the 100's of other species that migrate for winter season or hibernate for that matter)
Science has found answers to many problems, but many remain to be solved, exactly why birds migrate and how they know where they are going is one of them, but the general idea that those that migrated reproduce and those that stay behind of the same species don't is not really in question. The mechanisms by which birds navigate and the signals to migrate are becoming known.

My point is stated in the bible...
(I forgot the exact verse so could someone who knows sorta what I am talking about aide me thank you)

IT sorta kinda goes like this..

God Shows the birds in the air were to migrate to and he provides them food and shelter why do you think he wouldn't love you. (Something like that.. I cant recall the exact verse..)

anyways.. It is something like that..

That verse tells me that God installs birds and bees and every creature on this Earth with Knowledge of how to get places..

So why do we question his Absolute Authority? ..

That is my last question.. I wish I had that verse

Nobody is actually questioning gods will or authority, science does not deal with god or any supernatural question of why , science only deals with the observable and how that fits together. There is no metaphysical aspect to science. In fact most scientists are religious and of many different religions. Science is what joins them together in their search for the explanations of nature, their individual religions are how each accounts for the ultimate metaphysical why.

Finally for a good introduction to the science of the Theory of evolution I recomend this site.

[QUOTE philadiddle]we don't, you may want to consider that the bible, in the creation account, expresses a worldview, and not a scientific cosmology. If the intention of Genesis is to express theological truths using a context that the culture at that time would understand, in no way does it contradict the theory of evolution.[/QUOTE]

If you agree with me then why did you post that long boring statement that I comprehend but don't feel like posting back because you sais we don't then went on to try and disprove my point? and why are you trying to disprove my points anyways?

[QUOTEphiladiddle]these are called natural instincts. I believe the verse is right, and believe God did it through explainable natural processes
[/QUOTE]

First of all.. God isn't Mortal he is Immortal ... God is physical and Spiritual.. God Created this earth threw his Glory and his divine plan..

Natural instincts are a theory .. Since no one can prove them .. Ill have to say

God gave every animal Ability's they truly aren't natural that is why Science can't prove they are there because there Spiritual .. When the birds sing in the morning they praise God when you hear a toad croak it praises the Heavenly Father.. Any noise from a animal was installed by the King of all King of everything. the animal's praise him so why do we question him? .

Natural Processes.. That is you just putting God down..

Natural Processes .. NATURAL PROCESSES.. No God created them originally they didn't Evolve they didn't get some High form of IQ that passes down from generation to generation to say Hey fly south for the winter or it will get cold..

Thats saying you support evolution because you belive there isn't a God that created it.. that Is what I see in what you posted.

God is the divine architect he didn't design some wonderful world and then say you Amoeba go and make it for me.. No he made it in 7 days not over a course of Million's of years.. 7 day's..

Most humans cant comprehend how great this God Is serve is .. But he is greater than the complexity of the Earth it self.. In fact the earth is not small but tiny in comparison ..

The earth would be -Infinity and God would be Galafinity (That is greater than infinity times .. a lot too many numbers..) You know he created us he created this planet he created the universe for crying out loud.. So why do we argue.. I have no clue I am just saying what I think.. and if you don't like it then post back and I will say what I think again.. hope you get something from it.

Signed ,
Just Me.

westernjoe said:

The rest of the map is based on evidence. There are no homo sapien fossils found below a certain point in the strata,

Well that's just plain false. There are bones dug up that are indestinguishable from modern human bones that are dated at or earlier than any other primate.

Click to expand...

this sounds like my prediction for this conversation.

E:i have found fossil J, is a strata layer between B and N
C: So? that's not transition, it's just a deformed version of B
E:but it has characteristics of B and N
C:sorry, you'll have to do better

The first primate fossils are found in the Tertiary section. Why are there 15000 feet of sediment below without human, ape, or chimp remains? Surely a global flood would have mixed things up enough we would find at least 1!! After all, creationists assert that rapid burial in mud makes things fossilize, making the odds even higher of finding one.

westernjoe said:

they are found according to the predictions of the ToE,

no they are not. Toe just classifies them according to what their chart says. Many hominid bones are found laying right on top of the ground.

Click to expand...

As i said, none are found below where they would be expected to be by the predictions of the theory of evolution.

westernjoe said:

Not only do you not have transitionals from apes to humans but you don't even have transitionals from one ape to another.

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are u saying apes didn't evolve from apes? because, if i follow your logic the way it's laid out, not having a fossil means no descent, so that means lack of fossils mean that modern apes didn't descend from the pre flood apes. I guess God recreated them because the old ones fell off the arc and drown

btw, thedreadedathiest probably had to go and do something in his real life. You are new but i would be careful about declaring victory becuase a few hours have gone by since you got a response.

westernjoe said:

Ernst Mayr:

Unfortunately, no hominid fossils -- nor such of a fossil chimpanzee -- are as yet known for the period between 6 and 13 mya. Thus there is no documentation of the branching event between the hominid and the chimpanzee lineages. To make matters worse, most hominid fossils are extremely incomplete. They may consist of part of a mandible, or the upper part of the skull without face and teeth, or only part of the extremities. What Evolution Is. Pg. 239

Click to expand...

In addition to no links being found between 6 and 13 mya, there are no chimps prior to that. So did they pop out of no where?

I_Love_Cheese said:

Helpme..iamconfused;30518626]Question?..

Then why are chimps and apes still around.. Wouldn't the whole entire population evolve or die off?
Actually, Chimps and Humans are the offspring of a common ancestor that did die off that was neither Chimp nor Human.
We are both apes, Chimps and Humans that is.
Also.. Have you studied Darwin.. What I have heard is that he himself thought his theory Unbelievable.
I actually haven't yet read Origin of the Species, but it is on my bed and the next book in line. As to your comment, I believe it is part of what is called a quote mine. IIRC the line was along the lines that it may seem unbelieveable until you look at it a little further, Darwin did not think it unbelieveable, but someone else will find the actual quote.

Another thing , Were do animals of today get there "instincts" from..No science can figure out why birds fly south for the winter or why whales migrate .. (not including the 100's of other species that migrate for winter season or hibernate for that matter)
Science has found answers to many problems, but many remain to be solved, exactly why birds migrate and how they know where they are going is one of them, but the general idea that those that migrated reproduce and those that stay behind of the same species don't is not really in question. The mechanisms by which birds navigate and the signals to migrate are becoming known.

My point is stated in the bible...
(I forgot the exact verse so could someone who knows sorta what I am talking about aide me thank you)

IT sorta kinda goes like this..

God Shows the birds in the air were to migrate to and he provides them food and shelter why do you think he wouldn't love you. (Something like that.. I cant recall the exact verse..)

anyways.. It is something like that..

That verse tells me that God installs birds and bees and every creature on this Earth with Knowledge of how to get places..

So why do we question his Absolute Authority? ..

That is my last question.. I wish I had that verse

Nobody is actually questioning gods will or authority, science does not deal with god or any supernatural question of why , science only deals with the observable and how that fits together. There is no metaphysical aspect to science. In fact most scientists are religious and of many different religions. Science is what joins them together in their search for the explanations of nature, their individual religions are how each accounts for the ultimate metaphysical why.

Finally for a good introduction to the science of the Theory of evolution I recomend this site.

Click to expand...

Dude .. I have to use dude on you but..

If you study the roots of Science it is based in God.. Current Society has completely removed God from School's and science.

The original people who studied plant's and made this theory were doing it for God to learn more about God's creation not to question his Authority ..

You say you don't question his authority , but his creation is in his authority... and you question all of it.

The real question here is if God has removed bad kings of Israel many of times and destroyed idols and gave judgment to the State of Israel (in the old testament of course)

Then why would he not care about someone saying what he created wasn't his but out of a random mass of Amoeba ?

that is all Evolution truly is .. its a way for Man to try and Take God out of the equation totally..

Its a way for man to try and say we don't have a God that we serve we just were derived from a gigantic explosion..

Evolution is false its that simple.. the main reason is because it doesn't compare to the Creator at all.. you put a man made theory against God in the end and then you see which lasts longer?..

After all it says that we will be around for ever.. Were will you be?..

Signed,
Just me.