The Double Message of Eternal Security.

RC1970 said:

If a person is a true believer then they are "in Christ" and not "in their sins" so they are saved. The seeking of forgiveness is not what justifies us, but it is the beginning of what sanctifies us.

Justification is a monergistic work of the Spirit, but sanctification is a synergistic work between the Spirit and the believer.

For someone who as over 10,000 posts on this forum, you seem to be lacking in the knowledge of basic Christian principles. Would you like for me to suggest some books on the subject of soteriology?

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I have been arguing against Eternal Security long before I joined this forum. I have talked on two other forums for many years against the evil of Eternal Security. But if you must know, this is not a competition of who knows more. This is a matter of what truth of what God's Word says.

May I suggest you re-read the following verses.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).


Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).


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stuart lawrence said:

Ridiculous.
No one would be cursed by relying on obedience to law they could faultlessly obey

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Scripture please.


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chaela said:

No worries. If anything, I'm the lazy one for not watching the videos, but it's simply because I feel we can cut to the chase far more quickly and efficiently with you conveying the point rather than letting two guys arguing in a video series do it.

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But the video clearly shows you the duplicitous nature of the Eternal Security message.
By not watching the video, you are desiring to limit yourself knowledge that can bring clarity.

You said:

Well, as you may already know, I am a Universalist, but even with Universalism out of the picture I would (and did, even prior to being universalistic) fall into the OSAS camp.

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That makes no sense. Sorry. Universalism is just not in Scripture big time. What about the wicked being destroyed and burned up?

You said:

I believe He came to seek and to save the lost. So, whoever falls into the category of "The Lost", will be sought and saved, sooner or later.

But setting aside for a moment the universalist aspect, if one believes that faith, belief, and repentance are gifts of God rather than the result of personal effort, then eternal security would be a logical conclusion, because if it wasn't earned, it can't very well be un-earned.


And this is the problem with Eternal Security's opposite, sometimes called "Lordship Salvation", which pushes "saving faith". It's just works-based salvation sneaking in through the back door, because it leaves one wondering how many Works Per Minute (WPMs) they need to be performing to qualify as having "saving faith" rather than merely "false assurance". It takes their focus off of what Jesus has done and places it on what they themselves do.

What a head-game that is. I'm glad to have that behind me.

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There is no point of thinking about God, or praying, or loving, or involving God in your life, or dedicating your life to Him (by obeying Him), or even talk about God's Word anymore if Univeralism was true. A person can go back to one's old life and forget about God because the Lord has got Hitler, Ted Bundy, and all the rest of the world saved.

It makes no sense.


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stuart lawrence said:

In rom ch7:4-6, Paul states the Christian must die to the law in order to live for God.sinful passions are aroused in you by the law if you live under it
The Christian us released from the law and serves in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code
WHICH LAW is Paul referring to in those verses?
In the following five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law( of righteousness) the example he gave was: thou shalt not covet. One of the TC and applicable NC law!

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No. Sinful passions are still aroused in a person even if they think they are not under the Law.
Are you saying you have not been tempted to do evil because of your belief?
Surely this is just not true.


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chaela said:

And this is the problem with Eternal Security's opposite, sometimes called "Lordship Salvation", which pushes "saving faith". It's just works-based salvation sneaking in through the back door, because it leaves one wondering how many Works Per Minute (WPMs) they need to be performing to qualify as having "saving faith" rather than merely "false assurance". It takes their focus off of what Jesus has done and places it on what they themselves do.

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The alternative to not doing good as a requirement in being a part of God's Kingdom is thinking one can do evil and sin as a part of His Kingdom and think they are good with God. In Matthew 7, Jesus says to certain believers (who did wonderful works) to depart from him because they worked iniquity (sin). In verses 26-27, Jesus says he that does not do what He says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and great was the fall of that house when a storm came.

I will choose to trust the words of Jesus and not you.


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stuart lawrence said:

For those willing and able to see the truth:

The power of sin is the law ( of righteousness)
1cor15:56

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So you do not struggle with sin anymore because you are not under any law of righteousness?



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chaela said:

There's nothing duplicitous in God's competence as Savior of the world.

You and I have been over this in other threads. You're free to revisit those to see what I've had to say about all that. This thread is about Eternal Security.

You obviously haven't lived as a universalist, if that's your conclusion.

But, again, this thread is not about universalism, but rather Eternal Security. Let's stay on topic.

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If you believe in Univeralism, I would prefer not to debate Eternal Security with you then.
For Univeralism is an obvious thing not taught in Scripture.
In other words, you have to be able to recognize that God is into justice of some kind in order to debate this topic with me. Otherwise there is no point to continue. There is no ground of appeal to make to you.


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