The Double Message of Eternal Security.

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Just to reiterate, for new entrants to the thread.
In rom7:4-6 Paul states:
The Christian must die to the law
Sinful passions are aroused in you by the law if you live under it
The Christian is released from the law and serves in the new way of the Spirit.

WHICH LAW is Paul referring to?
In the next five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law. The example he gave was: thou shalt not covet. One of the TC

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Kenny'sID said:
And who didn't see that excuse coming.

I think anyone with any sense at all can see I was happy to answer once things are cleared up.

Lol.

I went Into great detail to explain the question, as you asked me to. Then you refused to answer it. You haven't answered anything have you in any of these posts.
Just blustered
Empty vessels do make the most noise

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Jason0047 said:
. I see his belief as turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

...

That's because you don't understand Pauls message

Kenny'sID · Jul 5, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Lol.

I went Into great detail to explain the question, as you asked me to. Then you refused to answer it. You haven't answered anything have you in any of these posts.
Just blustered
Empty vessels do make the most noise

What question? You are all over the place. Just make things clear...geez

1stcenturylady · Jul 5, 2017

Kenny'sID said:
And who didn't see that excuse coming.

I think anyone with any sense at all can see I was happy to answer once things are cleared up.

Stuarts posts speak for themselves, he creates confusion then uses that confusion to blame others, and to make excuses because he cannot hold up in debate.

I think I've made my point here.

You are joining a sporting match and don't really know the players. I wouldn't take sides, because neither is telling all...just to be stubborn!

They are both obeying God, and that's all that matters. These two will still be fighting when they both reach heaven.

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Kenny'sID said:
What question? You are all over the place. Just make things clear...geez

Post 1025 to you. I'm sure everyone else who has read it understands the question asked.

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
You are joining a sporting match and don't really know the players. I wouldn't take sides, because neither is telling all...just to be stubborn!

They are both obeying God, and that's all that matters. These two will still be fighting when they both reach heaven.

The discussion has primarily concerned righteousness if observing the law. Not every belief in scripture.
And the person you wrote to simply wants to support Jason, as he pretty much shares his views. But he appears unable to debate/ answer any questions. Just criticise

1stcenturylady · Jul 5, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
The discussion has primarily concerned righteousness if observing the law. Not every belief in scripture.
And the person you wrote to simply wants to support Jason, as he pretty much shares his views. But he appears unable to debate/ answer any questions. Just criticise

Well, stuart, as you know, you don't tell all you believe, you go around in circles, and CAN AND DO leave the impression you don't agree obeying God is necessary. Is that news to you? I know better, but Jason and Kenny don't.

corinth77777 · Jul 5, 2017

Jason0047 said:
If you are speaking against "Once Saved Always Saved" or if you are speaking against the belief that says, "No sin can separate a believer from God", then in my mind, I am doing backfips of joy with poodles barking in happy applause.

...

Well..I'm a learner my views can change with understanding.

If one is sealed are they saved forever?
If one is not sealed then one could believe that one is not saved always saved
The problem with "no sin can separate us from the Love of God" is: There is no sin in Christ which is where the Love of God is.

Which begs the question If one is truly in Christ do they sin .
And I kind of believe this: If I do what I don't want to do, then it's no longer I that does it but sin that lives in me. Meaning there are still habits of the flesh. Yet recall God looks at the heart. If He knows my intent from the heart is to serve Him is that sin. Now if your heart and body participate in sin that may be a different story.
There's a passage that says something like this: I thank God you obeyed from the heart that which we committed onto you.

Why would one need to teach Osas if they lived Osas. My forwarding view Is that Jesus is Eternally Secure.

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Well, stuart, as you know, you don't tell all you believe, you go around in circles, and CAN AND DO leave the impression you don't agree obeying God is necessary. Is that news to you? I know better, but Jason and Kenny don't.

How many times have I stated the born again believer in their heart wants to obey God for that is where his laws have been placed. Jason has many, many times read that

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Well, stuart, as you know, you don't tell all you believe, you go around in circles, and CAN AND DO leave the impression you don't agree obeying God is necessary. Is that news to you? I know better, but Jason and Kenny don't.

And for the record. I don't excuse sins as : little sins.
I don't think I will be ok because I only commit little sins as Jason puts it.
The people who most excuse their sin, are those who most earnestly live under a righteousness of observing the law

corinth77777 · Jul 5, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
Verses your theology which makes up a second salvation that doesn't exist to go with the gospel of works? Now why did Jesus need to die for that?

Salvation is God's delivernce Jesus is the only source of salvation.
However what you are delivered from is many thing. Jesus can deliver you from present circumstances, from lying , stealing....etc or from the future wrath to come. The question is what part of deliverance now, plays a roll in if you will be delivered later? Seeing that love being made perfect is boldness in the time of judgement.
Isn't the key to come to full measure of Christ? To become like Him.

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

How can any born again Christian think they don't have to bother to live as God desires them to?
They have his laws in their minds and on their hearts.
Let's not just quote the letter, let's reason what it means.
What happens if you wilfully go against what is in your heart? Can you happily do so in a carefree manner without a care in the world? Of course you can't, such a thing is ridiculous.
Stop just quoting the letter some of you, think of the outworking of it. Consider the spiritual message contained in the letter of the covenant you are under and the practical outworking of that in your life

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Some people in these websites have their heads crammed full of theology of the letter. Their head is so crammed full with it, they have no room left to allow the Spirit to reveal the true message contained in the letter to them

corinth77777 · Jul 5, 2017

Kenny'sID said:
Trusting ourselves to do what? Be more specific.

What do you mean "ruling our own lives".

If we don't apply rules to our lives, we end up in a heap of trouble.

So now it's, if we choose not to sin we are ruling our own lives, and there is something wrong with that? God doesn't force us not to sin, we rule over that part of our lives....we make those choices. We make the choice to give God control, to live as he wants us to, but other than that he allows us control of our own lives/the details.

Quit your control of your own life as in your job and watch what happens.

No, we don't have our own kingdom, we take responsibility to do what God has asked of us, run our lives when it comes to the details and we are in God's kingdom.

Anything that is not of faith is sin.
I gave a huge example how Doe was going to choose the flesh and desires of her flesh to be ruled by. Its not His rule plus your rule....It's His rule...
And thereby we enter into the kingdom trusting in our king. His Kingdom come is God's rule in our lives on earth that is what connect you to heaven...the abundant life...here on earth that you know you are saved because you are walking in the spirit ...following after the spirit rather than the flesh. If you live after the flesh ye shall die, but if by the spirit you put away deeds of the flesh you shall live.

Kenny'sID · Jul 5, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
But OK, if you need further explanation.
If a person, anyone quotes Jesus words:

Okay, we may be getting someplace, now tell me "further explanation" of what?

What post is that referring to, and hopefully that will clear up the mess. See, normally the arrows in a quoted post will leave a trail back to what it concerns, but once we get so far down the line, it's becomes way to time consuming if even possible to find the posts in question.

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Kenny'sID said:
Okay, we may be getting someplace, now tell me "further explanation" of what?

What post is that referring to, and hopefully that will clear up the mess. See, normally the arrows in a quoted post will leave a trail back to what it concerns, but once we get so far down the line, it's becomes way to time consuming if even possible to find the posts in question.

Deflect, deflect, deflect from answering.
I dunno why you joined this kind of website, I really don't.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
But he's NOT immoral. That's the point. He believes in obeying God through the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. What is immoral about that. Paul said it frees us from the law of sin and death. Those laws are the negative Thou shalt not. Don't you know that as soon as someone tell you not to do something you immediately dwell on it? It is the difference between "thou shalt NOT" and "thou shalt LOVE" We are to obey God through the Spirit, not the written law. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

How many serious sins does one have to commit before God considers it wrong?
How many sins does a person need to commit before they are justifying sin or immorality?

It only takes one sin.
Adam and Eve caused a separation of spiritual death between God and all of mankind. The remedy or solution was the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

As for Stuart:
Well, I will let you be the judge after I show you a few more of his statements.

Stuart said this here:

"If we are faithless he remains faithful for he cannot disown himself
2tim2:13" ~ Stuart Lawrence.

This was in reply to whether or not what happens when he sins.

Post #560.

Stuart also said,

"...humans cannot be perfect. They cant, I wish they could, honestly I do. There's nothing I would like more than to be sinless in my flesh. But I'm not, and neither are you, we are all contaminated with the fact we cannot act perfectly." ~ Stuart Lawrence.

Post #960.

As for the letter kills and the pink bunny example:

This is true for the unregenerate, but not for the regenerate.
Those who put on the Lord Jesus Christ will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Also, the Holy Spirit had inspired men to wrote the New Testament.
So when you obey Scripture of the NT, you are walking after the Spirit.
Also, I am not under any kind of Pharisee religion that teaches works alone salvationism that leaves out God's grace (when Paul used to be Saul, he used to be a part of this false religion). I believe Jesus gave Himself (His grace) for the purpose so as to make us holy as Paul says in Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14. Again, read these verses very carefully and very slowly. They tell us the purpose as to WHY Jesus died on the cross.

...

Kenny'sID · Jul 5, 2017

corinth77777 said:
Anything that is not of faith is sin.
I gave a huge example how Doe was going to choose the flesh and desires of her flesh to be ruled by. Its not His rule plus your rule....It's His rule...
And thereby we enter into the kingdom trusting in our king. His Kingdom come is God's rule in our lives on earth that is what connect you to heaven...the abundant life...here on earth that you know you are saved because you are walking in the spirit ...following after the spirit rather than the flesh. If you live after the flesh ye shall die, but if by the spirit you put away deeds of the flesh you shall live.

Who here is saying it's ok to live in the flesh? This is about eternal security, and all some of us, including myself, are saying is, if we live in the flesh, and continue in sin without repentance, we have no eternal security. While others say we can live in the flesh and still be saved. Are we still on the same subject. Or are we actually in agreement?

Again God doesn't rule us in this age, he allows us free will and lets us rule ourselves and we choose to put ourselves under his rule or not. He makes the rules and watches to see if we accept and apply them to our lives. Maybe we can agree he lays down the rules but doesn't force them upon us.

And you didn't answer either of my two questions...the ones you actually quoted. Please understand, direct answers would be what I needed to make my points.

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Jason0047 said:
How many serious sins does one have to commit before God considers it wrong?
How many sins does a person need to commit before they are justifying sin or immorality?

It only takes one sin.
Adam and Eve caused spiritual death separation between God and all of mankind.

Stuart said this here:

If we are faithless he remains faithful for he cannot disown himself
2tim2:13 ~ Stuart Lawrence

This was in reply to whether or not what happens when he sins.

Post #560.

Stuart also said,

"...humans cannot be perfect. They cant, I wish they could, honestly I do. There's nothing I would like more than to be sinless in my flesh. But I'm not, and neither are you, we are all contaminated with the fact we cannot act perfectly." ~ Stuart Lawrence.

Post #960.

As for the letter kills and the pink bunny example:

This is true for the unregenerate, but not for the regenerate.
Those who put on the Lord Jesus Christ will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Also, the Holy Spirit had inspired men to wrote the New Testament.
So when you obey Scripture of the NT, you are walking after the Spirit.
Also, I am not under any kind of Pharisee religion that teaches works alone salvationism that leaves out God's grace (when Paul used to be Saul, he used to be a part of this false religion). I believe Jesus gave Himself (His grace) for the purpose so as to make us holy as Paul says in Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14. Again, read these verses very carefully and very slowly. They tell us the purpose as to WHY Jesus died on the cross.

...

Yep, I quoted scripture:
If we are faithless
He remains faithful
For he cannot disown himself

If you have a problem with scripture take it to the Lord.
Don't complain about people quoting it.

Yep, I am not perfect in the flesh/ sinless, and neither are you. So what is your point?
When you want to claim perfection/ sinlessness in the flesh, let me know

The letter that kills was stated in present tense. Paul is talking to believers, not the unregenerate.

Paul states
The power of sin IS the law to believers also.

As I keep telling you. You don't understand Pauls message

The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

learner

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

learner

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

learner

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency