The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
I see you are still preaching this theory of yours that involves two salvations ...

One salvation and His name is Jesus Christ.
Jesus saves in Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification.

You said:
Jesus come soon!!!!!!

Yes, Jesus saves in Glorification.
However, I believe that believers who justify a sin and still be saved gospel are not going to be taken up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. This will of course make them re-evaluate what they believe (and hopefully lead them to repentance).

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Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
Verses your theology which makes up a second salvation that doesn't exist to go with the gospel of works? Now why did Jesus need to die for that?

Try reading the purpose as to WHY Jesus died for us in Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14.
When you are done carefully re-reading these verses very slowly, then get back to me.

For Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him (See Hebrews 5:9).

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Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
If a person states spiritual truth, I will happily thank them, if that is OK with you( or even if it isn't)

As you wish. I was just trying to be helpful.

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Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Grace is "unmerited favor" to all those God is drawing to himself while they are still sinning. Once they repent Acts 2:38 “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. See we SHALL be given the gift of the Holy Spirit. This baptism of fire (Matthew 3:11), burns up the desire to sin. Sin no longer keeps us a slave to it with our flesh. We are dead to sin (Romans 6:1-2). However, we can still sin if we give into it with our free will. That choice is ours. But Jesus has given us new desires - we love what God loves, and hates what God hates. This free will is why Paul said, "I die daily" (1 Corinthians 15:31). We die to our fleshly desires, and walk in the Spirit by focusing only on Him and His leading, and ferociously studying His word to get it deep in your soul. This is not a command, but this hunger for God's word is given us by the Holy Spirit when He comes in to indwell us and becomes part of our new nature. It is one way to know you actually have Him and have been given this baptism of fire, Romans 8-9 are important to every believer. "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Repentance from all sin is the first step. That means turning away from the sin and turning toward God.

Yes, I agree with this.
Well said.

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Dan61861 · Jul 5, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Grace is "unmerited favor" to all those God is drawing to himself while they are still sinning. Once they repent Acts 2:38 “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. See we SHALL be given the gift of the Holy Spirit. This baptism of fire (Matthew 3:11), burns up the desire to sin. Sin no longer keeps us a slave to it with our flesh. We are dead to sin (Romans 6:1-2). However, we can still sin if we give into it with our free will. That choice is ours. But Jesus has given us new desires - we love what God loves, and hates what God hates. This free will is why Paul said, "I die daily" (1 Corinthians 15:31). We die to our fleshly desires, and walk in the Spirit by focusing only on Him and His leading, and ferociously studying His word to get it deep in your soul. This is not a command, but this hunger for God's word is given us by the Holy Spirit when He comes in to indwell us and becomes part of our new nature. It is one way to know you actually have Him and have been given this baptism of fire, Romans 8-9 are important to every believer. "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Repentance from all sin is the first step. That means turning away from the sin and turning toward God.

Now you are confusing me. Jason gave me a definition of grace. He once told me that the grace you are talking about is cheap grace???

1stcenturylady · Jul 5, 2017

Dan61861 said:
Now you are confusing me. Jason gave me a definition of grace. He once told me that the grace you are talking about is cheap grace???

No, cheap grace is believing grace is a license to sin. And that is what Jason also means.

Exactly what confused you in what I said.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

Dan61861 said:
Now you are confusing me. Jason gave me a definition of grace. He once told me that the grace you are talking about is cheap grace???

No. God's Grace being unmerited favor does not conflict with then living righteously after that. Unmerited favor is in reference to your PAST sin. God wipes your past slate clean so you can begin again and walk uprightely in Him and His good ways.

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Rajni · Jul 5, 2017

Jason0047 said:
But do not think for a moment that gets you off the hook in obeying God's commands in the New Testament.

What hook? I was never on any hook.

Dan61861 said:
So let me get this straight, I'm learning.

Eternal life is something I have to attain?
To attain it, I cannot sin?
Believing the Gospel was a temporary salvation, I have work to do by not sinning?
Now, is Eternal life something I gain, loose, gain, loose, gain?

Apparently it's not Jesus that saves, it's obedience to a set of laws. Apparently.

If that's all it is, we didn't need Jesus after all, and could join up with one of any number of religions that also love to dole out commandments like they're hot-cakes. Like Islam, for instance, which is quite similar to the more commandment-heavy forms of Christianity.

Jason0047 said:
RayJeena.

You are professed Univeralist (i.e. You believe in Univeral Salvationism).

What Does Universal Salvation Mean?

So I do not think you are qualifed to care what anyone really does because everyone is just going to be saved in the end anyways (Including these people within this cult). There are no dividing lines in your belief. All will be saved, no matter what they believe. So it is futile for you to argue like there are divisions when you do not believe that there are any divisions (and all will be saved).

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Unless one has been a Universalist themselves, I don't think they're qualified to determine what those who are universalists are qualified to do or not to do with regards to such things.

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
I couldn't have said it better myself, though I would have added Romans 8:8-9. LOL

Though I believe you have done a find job here of explaining that we are not under the laws of THOU SHALT NOT, but under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, which in essence keeps you naturally with a new nature and positively from breaking the laws of "sin and death," which are the negative "thou shalt not" commandments. Right?

One thing you and I didn't see is the wording "Christ is the end of the law of righteousness." That means Christ is the end of the law of self-righteousness, through willfully, but not naturally from the heart, keeping a set of commandments. I think you would agree that, yes, we are not under those commandments, but the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, has set us free from those laws. Right?

And please take a breath and answer for stuart, this question he has been asking. Do you believe there are 1050 NT commandments, what are they, and are they OT commandments, or NT? Also, would these come under the law of sin and death (thou shalt not) or the law of the Spirit of life in Christ (thou shalt love)

I think there has been some misunderstandings and even if you are not on equal ground with stuart, I believe you two CAN agree on more than you think when this last question is fully answered. I hope it will bring peace.

Jason has explained we are not under the laws of: Thou shalt not?

When Paul states in rom 7:4 the believer must die to the law/ not be under it, Jason is adamant. This does not refer to: thou shalt not covet. Nor any of the other: Thou shalt nots in the TC

Kenny'sID · Jul 5, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
It seems to me you can't answer any questions put to you. You asked for further explanation, I gave it, you then avoided answering. As you didn't help Jason out either by answering the question he seeks to study.

What are you giving further explanation too? the thing you wanted me to help with Jason or something else? See how things get confused when you get contrary, and leave things unanswered?

Now pull everything together for me and so I'll know where you are.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

False Grace:

"For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (Jude 1:4) (NIV).

Note: A person can deny God by a lack of works (See Titus 1:16).

True Grace:

11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;." (Titus 2:11-12).

We are told to:

Continue in God's grace (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
Continue in God's love (John 15:9).
Continue in the faith (Colossians 1:23).

So there is no such thing as a seal a deal kind of a thing going on here.

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stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Kenny'sID said:
What are you giving further explanation too? the thing you wanted me to help with Jason or something else? See how things get confused when you get contrary, and leave things unanswered?

Now pull everything together for me and so I'll know where you are.

Oh I know where you are. Someone who ducks answering questions. You cover it up with a lot of bluster. You carry on

1stcenturylady · Jul 5, 2017

Jason0047 said:
No. God's Grace being unmerited favor does not conflict with then living righteously after that. Unmerited favor is in reference to your PAST sin. God wipes your past slate clean so you can begin again and walk uprightely in Him and His good ways.

...

And then what about after coming to Christ. What is grace then if not the power of God indwelling us? Just as there is a change in the law, so does grace metamorphous into power.

Acts 4:33 has an example of the 'doubling' style of Hebrew writing.

And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

By this we know what the author meant. power/grace are the same.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Jason has explained we are not under the laws of: Thou shalt not?

When Paul states in rom 7:4 the believer must die to the law/ not be under it, Jason is adamant. This does not refer to: thou shalt not covet. Nor any of the other: Thou shalt nots in the TC

And I told you Paul is not referring to how we died to the moral law salvation wise in Romans 7:14-24 even though Paul is talking about the moral law. His point is not about the moral law being dead but his point is about how he could not keep the good aspect or part of the Old Law without Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:5 clearly shows that spiritual death is the result if one disobeys God's moral laws.

See Romans 8:3-4. It talks about that righteous aspect or part of the Old Law (i.e. the moral law) being fulfilled by us walking after the Spirit.

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Dan61861 · Jul 5, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Well, I will pray and think about how to answer this question in the most simplest terms I know and I will get back to you, Lord willing. But in the mean time...

The gospel is believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. But the gospel also needs to be obeyed,

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Okay, you said this isn't the Gospel. I can accept you needing to pray on it. I'll wait on the full gospel in layman's terms

stuart lawrence · Jul 5, 2017

Jason0047 said:
And I told you Paul is not referring to how we died to the moral law salvation wise in Romans 7:14-24 even though Paul is talking about the moral law. Ephesians 5:5 clearly shows that spiritual death is the result if one disobeys God's moral laws.

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Just wanted to correct ist century lady's false assumption.

So are you now saying Paul IS referring to the moral law in rom 7:4-6, including thou shalt not covet?

Surely not

Dan61861 · Jul 5, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
Verses your theology which makes up a second salvation that doesn't exist to go with the gospel of works? Now why did Jesus need to die for that?

This is a good question.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
And then what about after coming to Christ. What is grace then if not the power of God indwelling us? Just as there is a change in the law, so does grace metamorphous into power.

Acts 4:33 has an example of the 'doubling' style of Hebrew writing.

And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

By this we know what the author meant. power/grace are the same.

I believe that a believer can repent (confess of their sins) to Jesus if they sin and then be forgiven or restored. Serious sin is spiritual death for both the unbeliever and the believer. God is not a respecter of persons. A person cannot abide in unrepentant serious sin (like lying or lusting after a woman) and be saved. It doesn't work like that.

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1stcenturylady · Jul 5, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Jason has explained we are not under the laws of: Thou shalt not?

When Paul states in rom 7:4 the believer must die to the law/ not be under it, Jason is adamant. This does not refer to: thou shalt not covet. Nor any of the other: Thou shalt nots in the TC

I am not put off by someone claiming thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery, or any of the other moral commandments. You won't kill either. He sees it as both, not killing because the Spirit won't lead us to.

Neither one of you is going to kill. Is it so necessary to judge how a person comes to the same conclusion?

Bible Highlighter · Jul 5, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Just wanted to correct ist century lady's false assumption.

So are you now saying Paul IS referring to the moral law in rom 7:4-6, including thou shalt not covet?

Surely not

Paul is transitioning back and forth between different perspectives in Romans 7 and you cannot mix them entirely. Looking at the whole of Scripture will help you to not be confused in this particular study.

In Romans 7:4 Paul is referring to the Old Testament Law.
In Romans 7:14-24, Paul again is referring to the moral law within the Old Law as a Pharisee. At this point in time he is not aware of New Covenant Law yet.
Paul never makes a direct connection to saying that the Law in Romans 7:4 that is dead is the moral law in Romans 7:14-24. In fact, Paul says that we should SERVE in NEWNESS of Spirit and not in the Oldness of the Letter (Romans 7:6). This suggests that there is a change in the Law as Hebrews 7:12 says.

Ephesians 5:5 shows clearly that the moral law is still required to keep as a part of our salvation.

Anyways, Paul is recounting his past struggle with trying to keep the moral law without Jesus. He does this so as to how the futility of trying to obey God's good eternal moral laws without Jesus. Romans 13:14 says put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ so as to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

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The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

7 days without God, makes one weak.

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

7 days without God, makes one weak.

Well-Known Member

7 days without God, makes one weak.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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